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	<title>Comments on: Apple v. Microsoft</title>
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		<title>By: bkharmony</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/02/apple-v-microsoft/#comment-2672</link>
		<dc:creator>bkharmony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=952#comment-2672</guid>
		<description>Farhad Manjoo is a PC apologist, muddy thinker and all-around lousy writer. He goes out of his way to point out Apple&#039;s flaws every chance he gets. I have no idea how you could see him as &quot;in the tank&quot; for Apple.

P.S. He doesn&#039;t even own a Mac.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Farhad Manjoo is a PC apologist, muddy thinker and all-around lousy writer. He goes out of his way to point out Apple&#8217;s flaws every chance he gets. I have no idea how you could see him as &#8220;in the tank&#8221; for Apple.</p>
<p>P.S. He doesn&#8217;t even own a Mac.</p>
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		<title>By: re: PC and Mac &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/02/apple-v-microsoft/#comment-2595</link>
		<dc:creator>re: PC and Mac &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=952#comment-2595</guid>
		<description>[...] hate to do this, but to all the emailers who told me, in response to this post, that nobody actually believes that there are meaningful sociological differences between PC and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] hate to do this, but to all the emailers who told me, in response to this post, that nobody actually believes that there are meaningful sociological differences between PC and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Prolegomena &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Burlap sack</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/02/apple-v-microsoft/#comment-2408</link>
		<dc:creator>Prolegomena &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Burlap sack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=952#comment-2408</guid>
		<description>[...] Another Apple v. Microsoft  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Another Apple v. Microsoft  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/02/apple-v-microsoft/#comment-2153</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=952#comment-2153</guid>
		<description>@Eli:  
&lt;i&gt;Since your argument neglects to mention anything about Microsoft or Windows, are we to assume you did the truly thrifty thing, and invested the time necessary to learn some flavor of Linux, or another 100% free operating system?&lt;/i&gt;

No. Don&#039;t assume that. Don&#039;t assume that&#039;s &#039;truly thrifty&#039; either, since my time isn&#039;t (quite) valueless. 

I am the ultimate end user. I only use the simplest software that ever existed. I think some of the Mac-for-fashion guys have similar needs, but spend an astonishing multiple of what I spend for the same product. I should have spoken more precisely. For people with &lt;i&gt;these simple needs&lt;/i&gt;, to opt for a Mac is to go way, way out of your way to signal your membership in a particular group. It&#039;s an elite group. It&#039;s a rich group. I&#039;m sensitive to that, because I can no longer afford to belong to it the way I used to. I now see the Mac marketing for what it is: brilliant. It makes people believe it&#039;s the computer of the hungrier classes, the computer of the scrappy creative underclass. And it&#039;s really the opposite. And that&#039;s what impresses me. That&#039;s my only point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Eli:<br />
<i>Since your argument neglects to mention anything about Microsoft or Windows, are we to assume you did the truly thrifty thing, and invested the time necessary to learn some flavor of Linux, or another 100% free operating system?</i></p>
<p>No. Don&#8217;t assume that. Don&#8217;t assume that&#8217;s &#8216;truly thrifty&#8217; either, since my time isn&#8217;t (quite) valueless. </p>
<p>I am the ultimate end user. I only use the simplest software that ever existed. I think some of the Mac-for-fashion guys have similar needs, but spend an astonishing multiple of what I spend for the same product. I should have spoken more precisely. For people with <i>these simple needs</i>, to opt for a Mac is to go way, way out of your way to signal your membership in a particular group. It&#8217;s an elite group. It&#8217;s a rich group. I&#8217;m sensitive to that, because I can no longer afford to belong to it the way I used to. I now see the Mac marketing for what it is: brilliant. It makes people believe it&#8217;s the computer of the hungrier classes, the computer of the scrappy creative underclass. And it&#8217;s really the opposite. And that&#8217;s what impresses me. That&#8217;s my only point.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/02/apple-v-microsoft/#comment-2122</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=952#comment-2122</guid>
		<description>@josh: 
Since your argument neglects to mention anything about Microsoft or Windows, are we to assume you did the truly thrifty thing, and invested the time necessary to learn some flavor of Linux, or another 100% free operating system?

I think this brings to light a fundamental problem with the Mac vs. PC debate; namely that while Apple hardware is more expensive than PC hardware, Apple&#039;s OS is less expensive and (arguably) better than Windows.
Which is to say, (avoiding the apples vs. oranges comparison) there are two concurrent debates contained in the &#039;Mac vs. PC&#039; wars: 
1. Which OS is more capable / more affordable?
2. Which Hardware is more reliable / more affordable?

On the first point, there are business applications for which Mac OS cannot suffice. Likewise, there are industry-standard graphics and video apps that only run on Macs.

To obscure the second point even further, it pits Apple not against Microsoft, but against the myriad hardware manufacturers whose products are &#039;supported by&#039; Windows, and often are not supported by Mac OS. 

All of which is to say, there are a lot of different reasons people buy what they buy, and I think it&#039;s neither fair nor accurate to state that &quot;[People] buy Macs, above all other reasons, because you have money to blow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@josh:<br />
Since your argument neglects to mention anything about Microsoft or Windows, are we to assume you did the truly thrifty thing, and invested the time necessary to learn some flavor of Linux, or another 100% free operating system?</p>
<p>I think this brings to light a fundamental problem with the Mac vs. PC debate; namely that while Apple hardware is more expensive than PC hardware, Apple&#8217;s OS is less expensive and (arguably) better than Windows.<br />
Which is to say, (avoiding the apples vs. oranges comparison) there are two concurrent debates contained in the &#8216;Mac vs. PC&#8217; wars:<br />
1. Which OS is more capable / more affordable?<br />
2. Which Hardware is more reliable / more affordable?</p>
<p>On the first point, there are business applications for which Mac OS cannot suffice. Likewise, there are industry-standard graphics and video apps that only run on Macs.</p>
<p>To obscure the second point even further, it pits Apple not against Microsoft, but against the myriad hardware manufacturers whose products are &#8217;supported by&#8217; Windows, and often are not supported by Mac OS. </p>
<p>All of which is to say, there are a lot of different reasons people buy what they buy, and I think it&#8217;s neither fair nor accurate to state that &#8220;[People] buy Macs, above all other reasons, because you have money to blow.</p>
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		<title>By: RTod</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/02/apple-v-microsoft/#comment-2119</link>
		<dc:creator>RTod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=952#comment-2119</guid>
		<description>Freddie:

I think that you are confusing two separate issues with one.  The first, with which you are of course right on the money, is that when you buy into a large corporation&#039;s marketing message that you will be a true rebel by buying into their marketing message is by definition absurd.  Though in a world of Nikes, overproduced &quot;edgy&quot; music, &quot;cool&quot; magazines owned by Time Warner, Volkswagens, and a gazzilion others, it seems a little unfair to single out only the Mac users that fall into this infantile advertisement-created tribalism.

However, as a current user of both PCs and a Mac, I can tell you that the issue of quality is a separate issue altogether.  

My wife bought me a Powerbook to use with work, where I must also use a PC.  (Some things I work on have security issues, and can only be worked on with a computer fully owned by my employer).  My PC needs assistance from the IT guys to re-integrate into our PC network about once a month.  My Mac, even though its going into a PC network, never has issues.  In addition, doing anything complicated and memory intensive, such as creating workshop notebooks on Publisher, means at least one rebooting of my PC during a project to fix the screen freezing.  And then there&#039;s the issue of having to wait 10 minutes for my PC to fully start up in a way that won&#039;t freeze up when I start working with it first thing in the morning.  In fact, I can tell you that since I have started using my Mac, using my PC reminds me of the day, way back when, that my employer got its first internet DSL hook up.  Using phone dial up at home, which had always felt just fine, suddenly was so annoying after being able to use the much faster system at work that I was eager to fork over an extra $50 a month to my cable provider.

In short, these are not differences that one can chalk up to wanting to be the cool kid.

The Mac just works better.

-RTod</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freddie:</p>
<p>I think that you are confusing two separate issues with one.  The first, with which you are of course right on the money, is that when you buy into a large corporation&#8217;s marketing message that you will be a true rebel by buying into their marketing message is by definition absurd.  Though in a world of Nikes, overproduced &#8220;edgy&#8221; music, &#8220;cool&#8221; magazines owned by Time Warner, Volkswagens, and a gazzilion others, it seems a little unfair to single out only the Mac users that fall into this infantile advertisement-created tribalism.</p>
<p>However, as a current user of both PCs and a Mac, I can tell you that the issue of quality is a separate issue altogether.  </p>
<p>My wife bought me a Powerbook to use with work, where I must also use a PC.  (Some things I work on have security issues, and can only be worked on with a computer fully owned by my employer).  My PC needs assistance from the IT guys to re-integrate into our PC network about once a month.  My Mac, even though its going into a PC network, never has issues.  In addition, doing anything complicated and memory intensive, such as creating workshop notebooks on Publisher, means at least one rebooting of my PC during a project to fix the screen freezing.  And then there&#8217;s the issue of having to wait 10 minutes for my PC to fully start up in a way that won&#8217;t freeze up when I start working with it first thing in the morning.  In fact, I can tell you that since I have started using my Mac, using my PC reminds me of the day, way back when, that my employer got its first internet DSL hook up.  Using phone dial up at home, which had always felt just fine, suddenly was so annoying after being able to use the much faster system at work that I was eager to fork over an extra $50 a month to my cable provider.</p>
<p>In short, these are not differences that one can chalk up to wanting to be the cool kid.</p>
<p>The Mac just works better.</p>
<p>-RTod</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/02/apple-v-microsoft/#comment-2118</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=952#comment-2118</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Buying the computer from company A doesn’t, as a matter of fact, say anything about you, just like buying a computer from company B doesn’t say anything about your counterparts.&lt;/i&gt;

As a born-again penny-pincher very close to bankruptcy, I didn&#039;t have to put a lot of thought into choosing my new laptop when the sales hit last December. It was a PC via Dell, $400 delivered. That was 40% of the price of the cheapest Mac I could find. 

I live in the annoying neighborhood called Williamsburg, in Brooklyn. Poverty is in fashion here, which might be lucky for me. There are a lot of artists, or at least unemployed people, occupying cafes in torn clothing all day, with mussed hair. From one side of their laptops they appear to be all writing novels.  There is usually a different story on the opposite side. But what you notice is that the computer among the hipster set universally is the Mac. The Mac is the People&#039;s Hardware, true computer of the hungry struggling artist types. 

And the PC: an emblem of the ruling class. 

I&#039;m familiar with the bias. I used to espouse it myself, back before dollars actually meant something to me. What I&#039;ve learned since is that the Mac marketing juggernaut has exactly inverted the class reality of the two kinds of machine. You buy Macs, above all other reasons, &lt;i&gt;because you have money to blow&lt;/i&gt;. People who are struggling just to service their debt every month can&#039;t afford to care about aesthetics, operating systems, susceptibility to viruses. I can&#039;t afford to treat viruses &lt;i&gt;in my own bloodstream&lt;/i&gt;. What I need is a Web browser and Office-style software, both available at no charge for PCs (I run OpenOffice). And that&#039;s the whole list. 

People who buy hardware from  Company A primarily due to the supposition that it&#039;s the funkier, artier, more proletarian option really are saying something about themselves. It&#039;s just that it&#039;s the opposite of what they have in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Buying the computer from company A doesn’t, as a matter of fact, say anything about you, just like buying a computer from company B doesn’t say anything about your counterparts.</i></p>
<p>As a born-again penny-pincher very close to bankruptcy, I didn&#8217;t have to put a lot of thought into choosing my new laptop when the sales hit last December. It was a PC via Dell, $400 delivered. That was 40% of the price of the cheapest Mac I could find. </p>
<p>I live in the annoying neighborhood called Williamsburg, in Brooklyn. Poverty is in fashion here, which might be lucky for me. There are a lot of artists, or at least unemployed people, occupying cafes in torn clothing all day, with mussed hair. From one side of their laptops they appear to be all writing novels.  There is usually a different story on the opposite side. But what you notice is that the computer among the hipster set universally is the Mac. The Mac is the People&#8217;s Hardware, true computer of the hungry struggling artist types. </p>
<p>And the PC: an emblem of the ruling class. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m familiar with the bias. I used to espouse it myself, back before dollars actually meant something to me. What I&#8217;ve learned since is that the Mac marketing juggernaut has exactly inverted the class reality of the two kinds of machine. You buy Macs, above all other reasons, <i>because you have money to blow</i>. People who are struggling just to service their debt every month can&#8217;t afford to care about aesthetics, operating systems, susceptibility to viruses. I can&#8217;t afford to treat viruses <i>in my own bloodstream</i>. What I need is a Web browser and Office-style software, both available at no charge for PCs (I run OpenOffice). And that&#8217;s the whole list. </p>
<p>People who buy hardware from  Company A primarily due to the supposition that it&#8217;s the funkier, artier, more proletarian option really are saying something about themselves. It&#8217;s just that it&#8217;s the opposite of what they have in mind.</p>
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		<title>By: kindness</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/02/apple-v-microsoft/#comment-2115</link>
		<dc:creator>kindness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=952#comment-2115</guid>
		<description>Mac still has a vastly better operating system.  You will NEVER hear someone say they loaded a new program and it didn&#039;t work.

Soooo....sorry Freddie, you are a true Luddite.  Stop kvetching about the better stuff out there you refuse to own &amp; get over it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mac still has a vastly better operating system.  You will NEVER hear someone say they loaded a new program and it didn&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>Soooo&#8230;.sorry Freddie, you are a true Luddite.  Stop kvetching about the better stuff out there you refuse to own &amp; get over it.</p>
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		<title>By: S E I B U O N E &#187; Truth</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/02/apple-v-microsoft/#comment-2111</link>
		<dc:creator>S E I B U O N E &#187; Truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=952#comment-2111</guid>
		<description>[...] Great post today from Freddie at the League of Ordinary Gentleman. &#8230;all of these greater philosophical underpinnings that people attach to PC vs. Mac are just self-aggrandizing nonsense. Buying the computer from company A doesn’t, as a matter of fact, say anything about you, just like buying a computer from company B doesn’t say anything about your counterparts. As I have said many, many times, there are good things about Apples and good things about PCs. If it makes sense to you to buy an Apple, go with god. And many Apple owners do just that, buy a product, use it and enjoy it. I’ve considered getting an Apple laptop in the past and may in the future. But it amazes me, absolutely amazes me, the number of Apple owners who lack the clarity or self-awareness to realize that purchasing a commodity from a enormous, soulless corporation that is also  owned by several million other people doesn’t make you a unique and beautiful snowflake. Apple has a better PR campaign, better advertising and a more gullible, credulous customer base. That’s it. It’s got nothing to do with individuality or noncomformity. I know many people are probably saying that this is a completely banal thing to say but I am consistently astounded by otherwise smart people who will tell you different. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Great post today from Freddie at the League of Ordinary Gentleman. &#8230;all of these greater philosophical underpinnings that people attach to PC vs. Mac are just self-aggrandizing nonsense. Buying the computer from company A doesn’t, as a matter of fact, say anything about you, just like buying a computer from company B doesn’t say anything about your counterparts. As I have said many, many times, there are good things about Apples and good things about PCs. If it makes sense to you to buy an Apple, go with god. And many Apple owners do just that, buy a product, use it and enjoy it. I’ve considered getting an Apple laptop in the past and may in the future. But it amazes me, absolutely amazes me, the number of Apple owners who lack the clarity or self-awareness to realize that purchasing a commodity from a enormous, soulless corporation that is also  owned by several million other people doesn’t make you a unique and beautiful snowflake. Apple has a better PR campaign, better advertising and a more gullible, credulous customer base. That’s it. It’s got nothing to do with individuality or noncomformity. I know many people are probably saying that this is a completely banal thing to say but I am consistently astounded by otherwise smart people who will tell you different. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: iLarynx</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/02/apple-v-microsoft/#comment-2110</link>
		<dc:creator>iLarynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=952#comment-2110</guid>
		<description>Manjoo&#039;s article&#039;s are often an embarrassment. But pounding on this &quot;snowflake&quot; straw man makes you proud?:

&quot;But it amazes me, absolutely amazes me, the number of Apple owners who lack the clarity or self-awareness to realize that purchasing a commodity from a enormous, soulless corporation that is also  owned by several million other people doesn’t make you a unique and beautiful snowflake. Apple has a better PR campaign, better advertising and a more gullible, credulous customer base. That’s it.&quot;

That&#039;s it? The flaws and merits of the respective operating systems have no bearing whatsoever? Just us Apple dupes who succumbed to a clever marketing campaign versus those geniuses who rushed out to get their copies of Vista with all the zeal of Steve Martin upon receiving his first phone book in &quot;The Jerk.&quot; Talk about a lack of self-awareness. 

Obviously, some people are able to get along just fine with Vista. Just as obviously - judging from Microsoft&#039;s sales of Vista and corporate customers&#039; resistance to adopt Vista, a lot of people are not at all happy with Microsoft&#039;s flagship product. 

But ignoring these facts, for Freddie, is somehow NOT self-aggrandizing nonsense? This avoidance of/apologia for, Vista&#039;s failings makes one wonder, who&#039;s fellatin&#039; whom?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Manjoo&#8217;s article&#8217;s are often an embarrassment. But pounding on this &#8220;snowflake&#8221; straw man makes you proud?:</p>
<p>&#8220;But it amazes me, absolutely amazes me, the number of Apple owners who lack the clarity or self-awareness to realize that purchasing a commodity from a enormous, soulless corporation that is also  owned by several million other people doesn’t make you a unique and beautiful snowflake. Apple has a better PR campaign, better advertising and a more gullible, credulous customer base. That’s it.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s it? The flaws and merits of the respective operating systems have no bearing whatsoever? Just us Apple dupes who succumbed to a clever marketing campaign versus those geniuses who rushed out to get their copies of Vista with all the zeal of Steve Martin upon receiving his first phone book in &#8220;The Jerk.&#8221; Talk about a lack of self-awareness. </p>
<p>Obviously, some people are able to get along just fine with Vista. Just as obviously &#8211; judging from Microsoft&#8217;s sales of Vista and corporate customers&#8217; resistance to adopt Vista, a lot of people are not at all happy with Microsoft&#8217;s flagship product. </p>
<p>But ignoring these facts, for Freddie, is somehow NOT self-aggrandizing nonsense? This avoidance of/apologia for, Vista&#8217;s failings makes one wonder, who&#8217;s fellatin&#8217; whom?</p>
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