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	<title>Comments on: Progressive Traditionalism?</title>
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		<title>By: Thursday</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/04/leviticus/#comment-7654</link>
		<dc:creator>Thursday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 06:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Christopher Roach does a number on Sullivan&#039;s claims to be a conservative of any kind:
http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/an_imaginary_edmund_burke</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher Roach does a number on Sullivan&#8217;s claims to be a conservative of any kind:<br />
<a href="http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/an_imaginary_edmund_burke" rel="nofollow">http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/an_imaginary_edmund_burke</a></p>
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		<title>By: Weekend League Round-Up!!! &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/04/leviticus/#comment-5092</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekend League Round-Up!!! &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 03:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=2508#comment-5092</guid>
		<description>[...] since I&#8217;m not particularly satisfied with either on their own&#8230;to which a commenter replied: Come back in a year or two when you’re ready to expound on important matters that you clearly [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] since I&#8217;m not particularly satisfied with either on their own&#8230;to which a commenter replied: Come back in a year or two when you’re ready to expound on important matters that you clearly [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Faith and modernity &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/04/leviticus/#comment-4499</link>
		<dc:creator>Faith and modernity &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=2508#comment-4499</guid>
		<description>[...] Tim A had this to say about some of my arguments the other day regarding Leviticus and theology: Come back in a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tim A had this to say about some of my arguments the other day regarding Leviticus and theology: Come back in a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: john henry</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/04/leviticus/#comment-4482</link>
		<dc:creator>john henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 00:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=2508#comment-4482</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d second the Witness to Hope recommendation for a concise summary; also the first few chapters of Catholic Sexual Ethics  by Lawler, Boyle, and May provide a short accessible introduction to the Catholic understanding of the bible on sex, and the historical Catholic self-understanding of sex. It&#039;s conservative also, but I think most liberal Catholic writers would be working from the same premises in this area that you are, so they would be less educational even if you found them more sympathetic. Here&#039;s the amazon link; 

http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Sexual-Ethics-Summary-Explanation/dp/0879739525/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1239237371&amp;sr=8-1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d second the Witness to Hope recommendation for a concise summary; also the first few chapters of Catholic Sexual Ethics  by Lawler, Boyle, and May provide a short accessible introduction to the Catholic understanding of the bible on sex, and the historical Catholic self-understanding of sex. It&#8217;s conservative also, but I think most liberal Catholic writers would be working from the same premises in this area that you are, so they would be less educational even if you found them more sympathetic. Here&#8217;s the amazon link; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Sexual-Ethics-Summary-Explanation/dp/0879739525/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1239237371&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Sexual-Ethics-Summary-Explanation/dp/0879739525/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1239237371&amp;sr=8-1</a></p>
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		<title>By: E.D. Kain</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/04/leviticus/#comment-4442</link>
		<dc:creator>E.D. Kain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=2508#comment-4442</guid>
		<description>Thanks, William.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, William.</p>
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		<title>By: William Brafford</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/04/leviticus/#comment-4440</link>
		<dc:creator>William Brafford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=2508#comment-4440</guid>
		<description>E.D.,

George Weigel&#039;s biography of John Paul II (“Witness to Hope”) has what a  good summary of the traditional Catholic teaching on marriage and what JPII tried to do with it in the chapter on JPII&#039;s “theology of the body.” It&#039;s written from the conservative perspective, but I think it gets across some of the complexities of biblical interpretation and theology that plague this issue.

-wrb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E.D.,</p>
<p>George Weigel&#8217;s biography of John Paul II (“Witness to Hope”) has what a  good summary of the traditional Catholic teaching on marriage and what JPII tried to do with it in the chapter on JPII&#8217;s “theology of the body.” It&#8217;s written from the conservative perspective, but I think it gets across some of the complexities of biblical interpretation and theology that plague this issue.</p>
<p>-wrb</p>
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		<title>By: E.D. Kain</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/04/leviticus/#comment-4419</link>
		<dc:creator>E.D. Kain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=2508#comment-4419</guid>
		<description>Yeah, my wife says as much about - well - lots of things.  I&#039;m an expert at nothing, really, and don&#039;t have near enough time to become an expert at everything I&#039;d like to understand.

Any readings you&#039;d recommend to help me along my way?

I guess on another level, though, I&#039;m not so sure that this post itself was really attempting to be very theologically deep - it was more a question that asked is there a way to have a &quot;progressive traditionalism?&quot;  The concepts of Catholic social teachings and social justice are &lt;em&gt;very&lt;/em&gt; progressive in many ways, and very relevant, but again, perhaps my own lack of knowledge hinders me here as well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, my wife says as much about &#8211; well &#8211; lots of things.  I&#8217;m an expert at nothing, really, and don&#8217;t have near enough time to become an expert at everything I&#8217;d like to understand.</p>
<p>Any readings you&#8217;d recommend to help me along my way?</p>
<p>I guess on another level, though, I&#8217;m not so sure that this post itself was really attempting to be very theologically deep &#8211; it was more a question that asked is there a way to have a &#8220;progressive traditionalism?&#8221;  The concepts of Catholic social teachings and social justice are <em>very</em> progressive in many ways, and very relevant, but again, perhaps my own lack of knowledge hinders me here as well&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tim A</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/04/leviticus/#comment-4418</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>John H,

Agreed. I was reacting to the Leviticus = &quot;All of Theology&quot; comment and didn&#039;t see Kain&#039;s subsequent stepdown.

Kain, please forgive my shouting in your house.

But before moving along, just let me submit that you may want to take the thrust of my recommendation seriously. I would be embarrassed to begin blogging about my random ideas concerning molecular biology before learning some biology first. And theology, if anything, is even deeper and more significant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John H,</p>
<p>Agreed. I was reacting to the Leviticus = &#8220;All of Theology&#8221; comment and didn&#8217;t see Kain&#8217;s subsequent stepdown.</p>
<p>Kain, please forgive my shouting in your house.</p>
<p>But before moving along, just let me submit that you may want to take the thrust of my recommendation seriously. I would be embarrassed to begin blogging about my random ideas concerning molecular biology before learning some biology first. And theology, if anything, is even deeper and more significant.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: E.D. Kain</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/04/leviticus/#comment-4417</link>
		<dc:creator>E.D. Kain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=2508#comment-4417</guid>
		<description>Thanks, John.  It&#039;s okay, though.  I can take a few punches.

Tim, I am not particularly concerned with &quot;embarrassing myself&quot; as I consider the very point of blogging, conversing, etc. a learning experience.  I am woefully short on good theological training as I went through a very long anti-religious phase during my rebellious period and I&#039;m doing my best to catch up.  Blogging is a sort of act of expression and questioning all at once for me - so I state things I believe but at the same time ask questions and I am very lucky indeed to have such a knowledgeable readership here at the League to better inform me when I am lacking in knowledge (on any number of subjects).

So here is where I am having difficulty:

I believe very much in tradition and in the importance of a society built on the foundation of tradition and history and the wisdom of the ages etc.  This is why the Catholic Church makes so much more sense and to me seems so much more spiritually powerful (to me, in any case) than Protestantism.  

However, at the same time, in my heart of hearts I know that some things are just &lt;em&gt;right&lt;/em&gt; and that the times often change to reflect this.  Slavery, race equality, etc. have all been part of this liberating tradition, and the Church has not always been on the right side of every debate but has generally grown and evolved (carefully) to incorporate the right side of the debate into its theological framework.  The world is no longer the center of the universe; I seem to recall it was a priest or a monk who first toyed with the idea of the Big Bang; evolution is accepted by the Church as well, in less I am mistaken.  Certainly even the most conservative Catholics I know believe that evolution and creation are not mutually exclusive concepts.  So with homosexuality I simply hope for a similar story, a move by the Church to accept and embrace it.  That&#039;s all.  Perhaps I am simply too miserably short on theological knowledge to state how this could ever be done, so I keep it in the realm of hope...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, John.  It&#8217;s okay, though.  I can take a few punches.</p>
<p>Tim, I am not particularly concerned with &#8220;embarrassing myself&#8221; as I consider the very point of blogging, conversing, etc. a learning experience.  I am woefully short on good theological training as I went through a very long anti-religious phase during my rebellious period and I&#8217;m doing my best to catch up.  Blogging is a sort of act of expression and questioning all at once for me &#8211; so I state things I believe but at the same time ask questions and I am very lucky indeed to have such a knowledgeable readership here at the League to better inform me when I am lacking in knowledge (on any number of subjects).</p>
<p>So here is where I am having difficulty:</p>
<p>I believe very much in tradition and in the importance of a society built on the foundation of tradition and history and the wisdom of the ages etc.  This is why the Catholic Church makes so much more sense and to me seems so much more spiritually powerful (to me, in any case) than Protestantism.  </p>
<p>However, at the same time, in my heart of hearts I know that some things are just <em>right</em> and that the times often change to reflect this.  Slavery, race equality, etc. have all been part of this liberating tradition, and the Church has not always been on the right side of every debate but has generally grown and evolved (carefully) to incorporate the right side of the debate into its theological framework.  The world is no longer the center of the universe; I seem to recall it was a priest or a monk who first toyed with the idea of the Big Bang; evolution is accepted by the Church as well, in less I am mistaken.  Certainly even the most conservative Catholics I know believe that evolution and creation are not mutually exclusive concepts.  So with homosexuality I simply hope for a similar story, a move by the Church to accept and embrace it.  That&#8217;s all.  Perhaps I am simply too miserably short on theological knowledge to state how this could ever be done, so I keep it in the realm of hope&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: john henry</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/04/leviticus/#comment-4415</link>
		<dc:creator>john henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=2508#comment-4415</guid>
		<description>Tim A,

Settle down. E.D. may have been mistaken, but he&#039;s shown that he&#039;s arguing in good faith. No need to go after him like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim A,</p>
<p>Settle down. E.D. may have been mistaken, but he&#8217;s shown that he&#8217;s arguing in good faith. No need to go after him like that.</p>
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