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	<title>Comments on: Abortion IS subject to the democratic process!</title>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/abortion-is-subject-to-the-democratic-process/#comment-9912</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5127#comment-9912</guid>
		<description>&quot;....Ross Douthat repeats once again the pro-life canard that Roe v. Wade has somehow taken abortion out of the democratic process. This is simply not true, no matter how many times those opposed to abortion repeat it. Setting aside the banal fact that the judicial system is a part of our democratic process, there is a clear, straightforward and well-known way to overturn Roe v. Wade– pass a constitutional amendment criminalizing abortion. &quot;

Actually, there&#039;s a method which would be much easier to achieve - have a majority of the Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade, or (much more likely) gut it like a fish, until it didn&#039;t do anything but sit in the history books as the textbook definition of a dead article.

For example, if 7 of the 9 Supreme Court justices were Republican (i.e., &lt;b&gt;the situation for ~three decades now&lt;/b&gt;), then even if two &#039;defected&#039;, that&#039;d still leave a 5-justice GOP majority block.  

As for &#039;stare decisis&#039;, the Rhenquist/Scalia/Thomas court was notorious for being &#039;originalist&#039;, and not unduly bound by previous precendents.  And after Bush v. Gore, it&#039;s no longer honestly deniable that when five GOP justices *really* want something, there are no rules (how many other Supreme Court decisions state that they are not precedents?).

And the additon of Roberts and Alito to the Supreme Court hasn&#039;t slowed down the &#039;flexibility&#039; of the GOP block; we&#039;re seeing the legal system be rewritten to suit Ordo Dei, in many areas - but not abortion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;.Ross Douthat repeats once again the pro-life canard that Roe v. Wade has somehow taken abortion out of the democratic process. This is simply not true, no matter how many times those opposed to abortion repeat it. Setting aside the banal fact that the judicial system is a part of our democratic process, there is a clear, straightforward and well-known way to overturn Roe v. Wade– pass a constitutional amendment criminalizing abortion. &#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, there&#8217;s a method which would be much easier to achieve &#8211; have a majority of the Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade, or (much more likely) gut it like a fish, until it didn&#8217;t do anything but sit in the history books as the textbook definition of a dead article.</p>
<p>For example, if 7 of the 9 Supreme Court justices were Republican (i.e., <b>the situation for ~three decades now</b>), then even if two &#8216;defected&#8217;, that&#8217;d still leave a 5-justice GOP majority block.  </p>
<p>As for &#8217;stare decisis&#8217;, the Rhenquist/Scalia/Thomas court was notorious for being &#8216;originalist&#8217;, and not unduly bound by previous precendents.  And after Bush v. Gore, it&#8217;s no longer honestly deniable that when five GOP justices *really* want something, there are no rules (how many other Supreme Court decisions state that they are not precedents?).</p>
<p>And the additon of Roberts and Alito to the Supreme Court hasn&#8217;t slowed down the &#8216;flexibility&#8217; of the GOP block; we&#8217;re seeing the legal system be rewritten to suit Ordo Dei, in many areas &#8211; but not abortion.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/abortion-is-subject-to-the-democratic-process/#comment-9533</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 01:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5127#comment-9533</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Setting aside the banal fact that the judicial system is a part of our democratic process, there is a clear, straightforward and well-known way to overturn Roe v. Wade- pass a constitutional amendment criminalizing abortion. &quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Ah! So the only way to wrest abortion from the Supreme Court is to pass a constitutional amendment that is as ham-fisted and universal as the SCOTUS&#039;s defacto constitutional amendment. The chances of that are effectively zero. The fact is that Americans are ambivalent about abortion. Thus, the ability to create a patchwork of laws regulating the abortion procedure, it&#039;s practitioners, and the protections of a patients is what the People want and the only thing they will accept. What they think the patchwork should be varies as you move around the country. They&#039;d be fairly restringing in Louisiana and they&#039;d practically pay people to have the procedure in Massachusetts. You&#039;d have as much chance to pass a constitutional amendment criminalizing abortion as you would passing such an amendment to outlaw handguns.
 
If resolving this issue with a constitutional amendment was so easy why didn&#039;t the 7 SCOTUS justices suggest that in 1973?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Setting aside the banal fact that the judicial system is a part of our democratic process, there is a clear, straightforward and well-known way to overturn Roe v. Wade- pass a constitutional amendment criminalizing abortion. &#8220;</i></p>
<p>Ah! So the only way to wrest abortion from the Supreme Court is to pass a constitutional amendment that is as ham-fisted and universal as the SCOTUS&#8217;s defacto constitutional amendment. The chances of that are effectively zero. The fact is that Americans are ambivalent about abortion. Thus, the ability to create a patchwork of laws regulating the abortion procedure, it&#8217;s practitioners, and the protections of a patients is what the People want and the only thing they will accept. What they think the patchwork should be varies as you move around the country. They&#8217;d be fairly restringing in Louisiana and they&#8217;d practically pay people to have the procedure in Massachusetts. You&#8217;d have as much chance to pass a constitutional amendment criminalizing abortion as you would passing such an amendment to outlaw handguns.</p>
<p>If resolving this issue with a constitutional amendment was so easy why didn&#8217;t the 7 SCOTUS justices suggest that in 1973?</p>
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		<title>By: Consumatopia</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/abortion-is-subject-to-the-democratic-process/#comment-9387</link>
		<dc:creator>Consumatopia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 02:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5127#comment-9387</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;“We’re going in there to liberate those people!” Hell, isn’t that the justification for banning abortion? &lt;/i&gt;

No, it&#039;s the justification for the feds preventing Kansas from banning abortion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“We’re going in there to liberate those people!” Hell, isn’t that the justification for banning abortion? </i></p>
<p>No, it&#8217;s the justification for the feds preventing Kansas from banning abortion.</p>
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		<title>By: Consumatopia</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/abortion-is-subject-to-the-democratic-process/#comment-9386</link>
		<dc:creator>Consumatopia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5127#comment-9386</guid>
		<description>Ugh, that was uncalled for on my part. I didn&#039;t accuse you of defending slavery, but my tone in that last post was still unfortunate.  Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh, that was uncalled for on my part. I didn&#8217;t accuse you of defending slavery, but my tone in that last post was still unfortunate.  Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Alia</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/abortion-is-subject-to-the-democratic-process/#comment-9364</link>
		<dc:creator>Alia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5127#comment-9364</guid>
		<description>The problem as I see it is is relegating abortion as an issue for &quot;public opinion.&quot;  Why should the public have any say in a woman&#039;s personal reproductive health?  Should we have left the issue of miscegenation up to individual states and &quot;the public&quot;?  The rights afforded by the US Constitution, realistically, have less to do with public opinion and more to do with the freedoms enumerated and even implied within that document. 

If you polled the public and asked them whether or not the Westboro Church should be allowed to protest at the funerals of US servicemen, I guarantee that the large majority would say either &quot;no&quot; or &quot;no, but the Constitution gives them the right to Assemble and the right to Free Speech.&quot;  What Westboro does is despicable, but I don&#039;t see anyone jumping to amend the Constitution. 

The Federal Government should stay out of the bedrooms of its citizens, and stay out of the personal medical decisions between its citizens and their doctors, but so should the states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem as I see it is is relegating abortion as an issue for &#8220;public opinion.&#8221;  Why should the public have any say in a woman&#8217;s personal reproductive health?  Should we have left the issue of miscegenation up to individual states and &#8220;the public&#8221;?  The rights afforded by the US Constitution, realistically, have less to do with public opinion and more to do with the freedoms enumerated and even implied within that document. </p>
<p>If you polled the public and asked them whether or not the Westboro Church should be allowed to protest at the funerals of US servicemen, I guarantee that the large majority would say either &#8220;no&#8221; or &#8220;no, but the Constitution gives them the right to Assemble and the right to Free Speech.&#8221;  What Westboro does is despicable, but I don&#8217;t see anyone jumping to amend the Constitution. </p>
<p>The Federal Government should stay out of the bedrooms of its citizens, and stay out of the personal medical decisions between its citizens and their doctors, but so should the states.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross, Roe, Nash and Young &#171; Around The Sphere</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/abortion-is-subject-to-the-democratic-process/#comment-9335</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross, Roe, Nash and Young &#171; Around The Sphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5127#comment-9335</guid>
		<description>[...] Freddie at The League: Setting aside the banal fact that the judicial system is a part of our democratic process, there is a clear, straightforward and well-known way to overturn Roe v. Wade– pass a constitutional amendment criminalizing abortion. That’s how you override Supreme Court decisions; that’s how Dred Scott was effectively overturned. That’s how the federal income tax was passed. There’s a method for overturning Supreme Court law you don’t like, it’s well known, it’s time tested, and it’s as open to abortion foes as it is to anyone else. If anything, a constitutional amendment is more democratic, because it has to be approved by a larger number of representatives and clear more hurdles before it passes. So why doesn’t Ross propose passing a constitutional amendment banning abortion? Becaue he knows it would lose. It does not have the necessary democratic support to be made the law of the land. Because banning abortion is less popular with the country than it is with Ross Douthat. Now I know Ross has deep moral feelings about this issue, and that it must be frustrating for him that he and those who agree with him can’t get their way. But those are the wages of democracy. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Freddie at The League: Setting aside the banal fact that the judicial system is a part of our democratic process, there is a clear, straightforward and well-known way to overturn Roe v. Wade– pass a constitutional amendment criminalizing abortion. That’s how you override Supreme Court decisions; that’s how Dred Scott was effectively overturned. That’s how the federal income tax was passed. There’s a method for overturning Supreme Court law you don’t like, it’s well known, it’s time tested, and it’s as open to abortion foes as it is to anyone else. If anything, a constitutional amendment is more democratic, because it has to be approved by a larger number of representatives and clear more hurdles before it passes. So why doesn’t Ross propose passing a constitutional amendment banning abortion? Becaue he knows it would lose. It does not have the necessary democratic support to be made the law of the land. Because banning abortion is less popular with the country than it is with Ross Douthat. Now I know Ross has deep moral feelings about this issue, and that it must be frustrating for him that he and those who agree with him can’t get their way. But those are the wages of democracy. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: matoko_chan</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/abortion-is-subject-to-the-democratic-process/#comment-9321</link>
		<dc:creator>matoko_chan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5127#comment-9321</guid>
		<description>Gratz on the Sully link, my &lt;i&gt;habbibi&lt;/i&gt;.
Sully gets it.
This is the same dumb failcake that Coulter served up when the last prolife terrorist was being sentenced for murder.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://theamericanscene.com/2009/06/10/cliff-notes-ross-douthat-on-abortion&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Conor&lt;/a&gt; and Douthat and McArdle can tart up Coulters failcake all they want with faux-lucid verbage and terrorist apologia but it is still a whore&#039;s argument and they are still intellectual whores for spreading it again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gratz on the Sully link, my <i>habbibi</i>.<br />
Sully gets it.<br />
This is the same dumb failcake that Coulter served up when the last prolife terrorist was being sentenced for murder.<br />
<a href="http://theamericanscene.com/2009/06/10/cliff-notes-ross-douthat-on-abortion" rel="nofollow">Conor</a> and Douthat and McArdle can tart up Coulters failcake all they want with faux-lucid verbage and terrorist apologia but it is still a whore&#8217;s argument and they are still intellectual whores for spreading it again.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/abortion-is-subject-to-the-democratic-process/#comment-9320</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5127#comment-9320</guid>
		<description>Or Afghanistan for that matter? Or Iraq?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or Afghanistan for that matter? Or Iraq?</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/abortion-is-subject-to-the-democratic-process/#comment-9319</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5127#comment-9319</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not on the &quot;right&quot; of local tyrants to oppress.

But let&#039;s look at the history of folks going and doing everything they can to get rid of a local tyrant... hasn&#039;t that been the framing of *EVERY* invasion? &quot;We&#039;re going in there to liberate those people!&quot;

Hell, isn&#039;t that the justification for banning abortion? &quot;We&#039;re trying to keep people *ALIVE*!!!&quot;

I&#039;m getting over &quot;intentions&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not on the &#8220;right&#8221; of local tyrants to oppress.</p>
<p>But let&#8217;s look at the history of folks going and doing everything they can to get rid of a local tyrant&#8230; hasn&#8217;t that been the framing of *EVERY* invasion? &#8220;We&#8217;re going in there to liberate those people!&#8221;</p>
<p>Hell, isn&#8217;t that the justification for banning abortion? &#8220;We&#8217;re trying to keep people *ALIVE*!!!&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m getting over &#8220;intentions&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nora Carrington</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/abortion-is-subject-to-the-democratic-process/#comment-9312</link>
		<dc:creator>Nora Carrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5127#comment-9312</guid>
		<description>why should might rights be different in Mississippi than they are in Washington?  No one would suggest for a moment that it would be fine for MS to forbid interracial marriage -- because it&#039;s politically popular.

When are men going to finally get it through their heads that women are human beings?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why should might rights be different in Mississippi than they are in Washington?  No one would suggest for a moment that it would be fine for MS to forbid interracial marriage &#8212; because it&#8217;s politically popular.</p>
<p>When are men going to finally get it through their heads that women are human beings?</p>
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