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	<title>Comments on: St. Michael of Neverland Ranch</title>
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		<title>By: For All Of Us Old Enough To Remember &#8220;Thriller&#8230;&#8221; Update: Michael Jackson (1958-2009) &#171; Around The Sphere</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/st-michael-of-neverland-ranch/#comment-11402</link>
		<dc:creator>For All Of Us Old Enough To Remember &#8220;Thriller&#8230;&#8221; Update: Michael Jackson (1958-2009) &#171; Around The Sphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5839#comment-11402</guid>
		<description>[...] E.D. Kain at The League: Watch as the pop-beatification process begins.  I don’t mean to sound unsympathetic.  I just haven’t had a change of heart now that he’s dead.  I don’t know if he was guilty or not, but my gut, for what it’s worth, certainly tells me that he was.  That’s not fair, I know, but I can’t help it.  And beyond that, I’m also pretty certain he was a miserable person, whose sadness had withered him from within. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] E.D. Kain at The League: Watch as the pop-beatification process begins.  I don’t mean to sound unsympathetic.  I just haven’t had a change of heart now that he’s dead.  I don’t know if he was guilty or not, but my gut, for what it’s worth, certainly tells me that he was.  That’s not fair, I know, but I can’t help it.  And beyond that, I’m also pretty certain he was a miserable person, whose sadness had withered him from within. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/st-michael-of-neverland-ranch/#comment-11363</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5839#comment-11363</guid>
		<description>I have to say, E.D., I sounded really snotty up there.  My apologies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say, E.D., I sounded really snotty up there.  My apologies.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/st-michael-of-neverland-ranch/#comment-11352</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5839#comment-11352</guid>
		<description>I do kind of agree the coverage is disproportionate.  Nytimes.com was running a full width headline or hours upon hours when they barely were moved to do so at all for Iran.  (personal bias perhaps showing there, but still, any number of stories are clearly more important to people than this.) 

But whatev.  I have to say E.D., I find this piece a bit uncharitable.  The guy obviously did, ahem, touch huge numbers of people with his talent.  My personal view is that Cobain&#039;s was greater, but I think it is undeniable that this is the biggest pop-culture passing since Elvis.  The main difference is in the declines.  The King of Rock had a horrible one, but he kept making interesting music.  Michael&#039;s was more fully self-destructive, wherein he pretty much fully disappeared from the artistic scene.  For that reason, his death had almost no emotional impact for me.  He was almost already there -- a hollow shell.  But at the same time, that absence itself underscores the significance of the outpouring yesterday and this weekend.  I&#039;m not sure when you were born, but I think it&#039;s possible you just don&#039;t have a sense for the force that this guy was.  That doesn&#039;t make the celebrity-worship objectively any better from a moral-priority perspective, but I think it would help to put the reaction in context for you.  You have to realize -- Kurt went out at the apex of his arc.  It shocked his followers.  (I was a latecomer; I actually rejected the emotionalism at the time in a similar way you are doing now -- for less good reason, as he didn&#039;t touch children.  I have come to see the error of my ways, relatively speaking.)  But at the time of  his death, as huge a star as he was, he was still a genre-specific (alt/grunge) phenomenon.  It&#039;s not an artistic defense, but Jackson simply dominated at a time when there weren&#039;t very many outlets to pursue a different artistic sensibility in the pop realm.  He was piped into people&#039;s consciousness, and if you give him a second listen, I think you might begin to understand why, given the alternatives, people connected to him in a historic way (best-selling album of all time.)

So this week, we see not a reflection of what the man was at the time of his death, but what he was fully to people the world over across the course of a lifetime, concentrated of course mainly in a few remarkable years &lt;i&gt;25 years ago!&lt;/i&gt;  Is it any wonder that the reaction seems out of place now, in a cultural setting removed by a quarter century from his moment of dominance?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do kind of agree the coverage is disproportionate.  Nytimes.com was running a full width headline or hours upon hours when they barely were moved to do so at all for Iran.  (personal bias perhaps showing there, but still, any number of stories are clearly more important to people than this.) </p>
<p>But whatev.  I have to say E.D., I find this piece a bit uncharitable.  The guy obviously did, ahem, touch huge numbers of people with his talent.  My personal view is that Cobain&#8217;s was greater, but I think it is undeniable that this is the biggest pop-culture passing since Elvis.  The main difference is in the declines.  The King of Rock had a horrible one, but he kept making interesting music.  Michael&#8217;s was more fully self-destructive, wherein he pretty much fully disappeared from the artistic scene.  For that reason, his death had almost no emotional impact for me.  He was almost already there &#8212; a hollow shell.  But at the same time, that absence itself underscores the significance of the outpouring yesterday and this weekend.  I&#8217;m not sure when you were born, but I think it&#8217;s possible you just don&#8217;t have a sense for the force that this guy was.  That doesn&#8217;t make the celebrity-worship objectively any better from a moral-priority perspective, but I think it would help to put the reaction in context for you.  You have to realize &#8212; Kurt went out at the apex of his arc.  It shocked his followers.  (I was a latecomer; I actually rejected the emotionalism at the time in a similar way you are doing now &#8212; for less good reason, as he didn&#8217;t touch children.  I have come to see the error of my ways, relatively speaking.)  But at the time of  his death, as huge a star as he was, he was still a genre-specific (alt/grunge) phenomenon.  It&#8217;s not an artistic defense, but Jackson simply dominated at a time when there weren&#8217;t very many outlets to pursue a different artistic sensibility in the pop realm.  He was piped into people&#8217;s consciousness, and if you give him a second listen, I think you might begin to understand why, given the alternatives, people connected to him in a historic way (best-selling album of all time.)</p>
<p>So this week, we see not a reflection of what the man was at the time of his death, but what he was fully to people the world over across the course of a lifetime, concentrated of course mainly in a few remarkable years <i>25 years ago!</i>  Is it any wonder that the reaction seems out of place now, in a cultural setting removed by a quarter century from his moment of dominance?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/st-michael-of-neverland-ranch/#comment-11327</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5839#comment-11327</guid>
		<description>From John Cole at Balloon Juice:

 

&quot;James Joyner thinks the coverage of MJ’s death is over the top, and I completely agree. I will, however, note that while the MJ coverage is over the top, it still pales in comparison to the three day self-absorbed wankfest that followed Tim Russert’s death.&quot;

 

I think this is correct.  

 

Now John Lennon - that&#039;s a different - he deserved every second of TVEE time he received after he was murdered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From John Cole at Balloon Juice:</p>
<p>&#8220;James Joyner thinks the coverage of MJ’s death is over the top, and I completely agree. I will, however, note that while the MJ coverage is over the top, it still pales in comparison to the three day self-absorbed wankfest that followed Tim Russert’s death.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think this is correct.  </p>
<p>Now John Lennon &#8211; that&#8217;s a different &#8211; he deserved every second of TVEE time he received after he was murdered.</p>
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		<title>By: Butters</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/st-michael-of-neverland-ranch/#comment-11324</link>
		<dc:creator>Butters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5839#comment-11324</guid>
		<description>I, similarly, refuse to turn on the news until this thing blows over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, similarly, refuse to turn on the news until this thing blows over.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/st-michael-of-neverland-ranch/#comment-11322</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5839#comment-11322</guid>
		<description>In that entry, you wrote, &quot;anyone foolish to direct any rational, level-headed criticism at the Gloved One would be immediately replaced with someone more accommodating.&quot;

That&#039;s exactly right, and the list of celebrities who&#039;ve followed this pattern is a long one. Perhaps the only amazing thing is that more of them haven&#039;t ended up in one of those white vans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In that entry, you wrote, &#8220;anyone foolish to direct any rational, level-headed criticism at the Gloved One would be immediately replaced with someone more accommodating.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s exactly right, and the list of celebrities who&#8217;ve followed this pattern is a long one. Perhaps the only amazing thing is that more of them haven&#8217;t ended up in one of those white vans.</p>
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		<title>By: E.D. Kain</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/st-michael-of-neverland-ranch/#comment-11320</link>
		<dc:creator>E.D. Kain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5839#comment-11320</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s certainly not perfect, Bob.  No doubt about that.  And you&#039;re always just having a little fun, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s certainly not perfect, Bob.  No doubt about that.  And you&#8217;re always just having a little fun, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/st-michael-of-neverland-ranch/#comment-11319</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5839#comment-11319</guid>
		<description>E.D. indeed, you may be right, but my goodness the left wing position &#039;those people&#039; come from just drag me down..&quot;there must be someway outta here, the thief he kindly said..&quot; besides, E.D. I was just having a little fun!
Please play Wiggle Wobble and tell me that it ain&#039;t a &#039;bad&#039; sound!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E.D. indeed, you may be right, but my goodness the left wing position &#8216;those people&#8217; come from just drag me down..&#8221;there must be someway outta here, the thief he kindly said..&#8221; besides, E.D. I was just having a little fun!<br />
Please play Wiggle Wobble and tell me that it ain&#8217;t a &#8216;bad&#8217; sound!</p>
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		<title>By: Conventional Folly &#187; Michael Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/st-michael-of-neverland-ranch/#comment-11306</link>
		<dc:creator>Conventional Folly &#187; Michael Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5839#comment-11306</guid>
		<description>[...] Jane Torrance has a fine write up of his career over at the Times&#8217; website. I&#8217;m more of E.D. Kain/Jonah Goldberg school of thought on his death. The deification of MJ was as predictable as it is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jane Torrance has a fine write up of his career over at the Times&#8217; website. I&#8217;m more of E.D. Kain/Jonah Goldberg school of thought on his death. The deification of MJ was as predictable as it is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Summers</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/st-michael-of-neverland-ranch/#comment-11290</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Summers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=5839#comment-11290</guid>
		<description>&quot;Jackson’s personal life reminds me of Louis XIV of France, who allegedly required members of his court to bow to the trays of food being carried into his dining chamber. Who’s the crazy one there — the king, or all the people around him who cheerfully play along?&quot;

I wrote about that exact thing here:
http://bleakonomy.blogspot.com/2009/06/deformations-of-fame.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Jackson’s personal life reminds me of Louis XIV of France, who allegedly required members of his court to bow to the trays of food being carried into his dining chamber. Who’s the crazy one there — the king, or all the people around him who cheerfully play along?&#8221;</p>
<p>I wrote about that exact thing here:<br />
<a href="http://bleakonomy.blogspot.com/2009/06/deformations-of-fame.html" rel="nofollow">http://bleakonomy.blogspot.com/2009/06/deformations-of-fame.html</a></p>
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