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	<title>Comments on: are you kidding me?</title>
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		<title>By: Criticizing Ross Douthat &#171; PostBourgie</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/are-you-kidding-me/#comment-13365</link>
		<dc:creator>Criticizing Ross Douthat &#171; PostBourgie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] column last week about Sarah Palin. Plenty of people did. One group who did unfairly was the League of Ordinary Gentleman, who decried Douthat&#8217;s description of Palin as middle class. Ross– Sarah Palin’s family [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] column last week about Sarah Palin. Plenty of people did. One group who did unfairly was the League of Ordinary Gentleman, who decried Douthat&#8217;s description of Palin as middle class. Ross– Sarah Palin’s family [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Lusvardi</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/are-you-kidding-me/#comment-13337</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Lusvardi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6141#comment-13337</guid>
		<description>I found the above discussion about whether Sarah Palin&#039;s popularity has to do with social class to be sociologically ignorant and framed incorrectly. 

There are two middle classes in the U.S. — the Old Business Class and the New Class (Orwell) of intellectuals, media types, professionals and paraprofessionals (nurses, social workers, teachers).

The New Class professionals no longer fight our wars, rescue people trapped in burning high rise buildings, build our infrastructure, aspire to be a middle manager at Wal-Mart, risk failure as business entrepreneurs, or start new voluntary associations such as churches. And they bear, rear, adopt or foster children much less than the working class, having given up or delayed parenthood for a professional career. In the main they are not doers. They are whiners, talkers, techies, coddlers, evaluators, lobbyists, therapists, and media spinners who largely depend on government regulations, licenses, or monopolies for their livelihoods. 

The New or Professional Class has high social status. They hold many prestigious public or private offices like the character the Grand Pooh-Bah in Gilbert and Sullivan’s opera The Mikado who bears the title “Lord-High-Of-Everything-Else.” They are the Pooh-Bah class, not the doing class.

Is Palin’s so-called “anti-intellectualism” or lack of aristocratic status a Republican problem which alienates the professional classes? Maybe it is.  But given that the professional class is so dependent on the government regulatory system is it any wonder that Republicans may consider them a lost constituency, investment bankers included. To the contrary, isn’t the real problem the resentment of the “doing class” to the attack on them by the professions and government?

All the past political campaign rhetoric about the “racism without racists” and the “Bradley effect”on Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama and the “class warfare card” of Sarah Palin only confuses and twists the issue of the attack on the working class with the false issues of racism, discrimination, mob populism, and social class populism. 

The public issues of immediate concern to the “doing class” currently being re-framed as hidden racism, discrimination, intellectual regression and social class populism are: sub-prime mortgages to lower income minorities and immigrants which now threaten retirement investments, the vote on same-sex marriage laws in California which threaten working class family values, and the qualifications of a Black president who is perceived to have a track record of doing little to nothing but has been advanced to where he is largely due to affirmative action, transgressing the old work ethic of the working class.

To mischaracterize these issues in terms of race as another New York Times columnist, Nicholas Kristof, does; or as anti-intellectualism as David Brooks does; or as social class populism as Ross Douthat does, or as lack of aristocratic class or status is to misunderstand what is going on. To use an intellectual’s term it is “false consciousness.”

Underlying all of the above issues is the premise that parents are entitled to hand on to their children the benefits of their class position and social mobility, including their property wealth, investments, and religious values. It is a concern about achieved social status versus ascribed social status by “accident of birth.” Modern American society has traditionally been modeled around achievement and merit; individualism over collectivism.

But counter-modernizing social and legal movements have created a “soft” society of automatic promoting schools, union jobs and affirmative action as quasi property rights, and affordable housing via sub-prime loans to combat the “hardness” of competitive capitalism. The state, not the market, is the redemptive dispenser of this welfare “American dream” of feeling “at home” in all areas of social involvement (“it takes a village”). Conversely, President Bush’s “No Child Left Behind Act” is an attempt to inject competition back into public schools where the professional culture is antagonistic to its harshness. Obviously, a pre-emptive war of choice does not fit in to this utopian welfare vision of the American Dream; thus, the “unpopulism” of the Iraq War.

This shift from achievement to ascription and social privilege challenges the social class opportunity system that has made the U.S. unique and enviable to all, despite its flaws. The reforms of the New Deal, however imperfect, were never intended to undermine the class system but to provide a “floor” to it. The put down of Sarah Palin as a racist or anti-intellectual or an icon of the great unwashed working class signals the call for a minimizing, if not ending, the “open society” of prosperity and entrepreneurial opportunity that have been a part of the class system of American society.

Under the newer welfare system based on ascribed rather than achieved status the life chances of the individual are tied to whatever collectivity to which they are defined as primarily belonging. Under such a system it will matter less what individuals do than what they are; or what somebody officially attributes them to be (e.g., underprivileged, gay, homeless, union member, victim, etc). This begs the question: who will do the allocating of such status? It will be professionals together with government. It is thus little wonder then that professionals see Sarah Palin as a backward threat to the reforms of racial equality brought about by the Progressive intellectual establishment and liberal religion. It is also why Indian-British novelist and intellectual Salman Rushdie has called the pick of Sarah Palin for Vice-President “a joke.” Such utterances are a reflection of class contempt and solidarity at the doing class.

What was at stake with the recent past election was not that Sarah Palin is racist or anti-intellectual or low class or never will be allowed social status by the media elites, but whether we want to end or marginalize our highly successful, albeit imperfect, open social class system. To do this would ultimately entail total control over each person’s life chances (e.g., their place of living, housing affordability, their investments, their value system, their health habits, etc.). The prospect of benign totalitarianism that such a shift would entail is not very appealing, especially to the doing class. That is why class warfare rhetoric has found fertile ground in the past national Presidential race; not because of racism, backward thinking, social status, or mob populism.
See Peter L. Berger and Brigitte Berger, The Assault on Class, Worldview (July, 1972).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found the above discussion about whether Sarah Palin&#8217;s popularity has to do with social class to be sociologically ignorant and framed incorrectly. </p>
<p>There are two middle classes in the U.S. — the Old Business Class and the New Class (Orwell) of intellectuals, media types, professionals and paraprofessionals (nurses, social workers, teachers).</p>
<p>The New Class professionals no longer fight our wars, rescue people trapped in burning high rise buildings, build our infrastructure, aspire to be a middle manager at Wal-Mart, risk failure as business entrepreneurs, or start new voluntary associations such as churches. And they bear, rear, adopt or foster children much less than the working class, having given up or delayed parenthood for a professional career. In the main they are not doers. They are whiners, talkers, techies, coddlers, evaluators, lobbyists, therapists, and media spinners who largely depend on government regulations, licenses, or monopolies for their livelihoods. </p>
<p>The New or Professional Class has high social status. They hold many prestigious public or private offices like the character the Grand Pooh-Bah in Gilbert and Sullivan’s opera The Mikado who bears the title “Lord-High-Of-Everything-Else.” They are the Pooh-Bah class, not the doing class.</p>
<p>Is Palin’s so-called “anti-intellectualism” or lack of aristocratic status a Republican problem which alienates the professional classes? Maybe it is.  But given that the professional class is so dependent on the government regulatory system is it any wonder that Republicans may consider them a lost constituency, investment bankers included. To the contrary, isn’t the real problem the resentment of the “doing class” to the attack on them by the professions and government?</p>
<p>All the past political campaign rhetoric about the “racism without racists” and the “Bradley effect”on Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama and the “class warfare card” of Sarah Palin only confuses and twists the issue of the attack on the working class with the false issues of racism, discrimination, mob populism, and social class populism. </p>
<p>The public issues of immediate concern to the “doing class” currently being re-framed as hidden racism, discrimination, intellectual regression and social class populism are: sub-prime mortgages to lower income minorities and immigrants which now threaten retirement investments, the vote on same-sex marriage laws in California which threaten working class family values, and the qualifications of a Black president who is perceived to have a track record of doing little to nothing but has been advanced to where he is largely due to affirmative action, transgressing the old work ethic of the working class.</p>
<p>To mischaracterize these issues in terms of race as another New York Times columnist, Nicholas Kristof, does; or as anti-intellectualism as David Brooks does; or as social class populism as Ross Douthat does, or as lack of aristocratic class or status is to misunderstand what is going on. To use an intellectual’s term it is “false consciousness.”</p>
<p>Underlying all of the above issues is the premise that parents are entitled to hand on to their children the benefits of their class position and social mobility, including their property wealth, investments, and religious values. It is a concern about achieved social status versus ascribed social status by “accident of birth.” Modern American society has traditionally been modeled around achievement and merit; individualism over collectivism.</p>
<p>But counter-modernizing social and legal movements have created a “soft” society of automatic promoting schools, union jobs and affirmative action as quasi property rights, and affordable housing via sub-prime loans to combat the “hardness” of competitive capitalism. The state, not the market, is the redemptive dispenser of this welfare “American dream” of feeling “at home” in all areas of social involvement (“it takes a village”). Conversely, President Bush’s “No Child Left Behind Act” is an attempt to inject competition back into public schools where the professional culture is antagonistic to its harshness. Obviously, a pre-emptive war of choice does not fit in to this utopian welfare vision of the American Dream; thus, the “unpopulism” of the Iraq War.</p>
<p>This shift from achievement to ascription and social privilege challenges the social class opportunity system that has made the U.S. unique and enviable to all, despite its flaws. The reforms of the New Deal, however imperfect, were never intended to undermine the class system but to provide a “floor” to it. The put down of Sarah Palin as a racist or anti-intellectual or an icon of the great unwashed working class signals the call for a minimizing, if not ending, the “open society” of prosperity and entrepreneurial opportunity that have been a part of the class system of American society.</p>
<p>Under the newer welfare system based on ascribed rather than achieved status the life chances of the individual are tied to whatever collectivity to which they are defined as primarily belonging. Under such a system it will matter less what individuals do than what they are; or what somebody officially attributes them to be (e.g., underprivileged, gay, homeless, union member, victim, etc). This begs the question: who will do the allocating of such status? It will be professionals together with government. It is thus little wonder then that professionals see Sarah Palin as a backward threat to the reforms of racial equality brought about by the Progressive intellectual establishment and liberal religion. It is also why Indian-British novelist and intellectual Salman Rushdie has called the pick of Sarah Palin for Vice-President “a joke.” Such utterances are a reflection of class contempt and solidarity at the doing class.</p>
<p>What was at stake with the recent past election was not that Sarah Palin is racist or anti-intellectual or low class or never will be allowed social status by the media elites, but whether we want to end or marginalize our highly successful, albeit imperfect, open social class system. To do this would ultimately entail total control over each person’s life chances (e.g., their place of living, housing affordability, their investments, their value system, their health habits, etc.). The prospect of benign totalitarianism that such a shift would entail is not very appealing, especially to the doing class. That is why class warfare rhetoric has found fertile ground in the past national Presidential race; not because of racism, backward thinking, social status, or mob populism.<br />
See Peter L. Berger and Brigitte Berger, The Assault on Class, Worldview (July, 1972).</p>
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		<title>By: junglecat</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/are-you-kidding-me/#comment-13128</link>
		<dc:creator>junglecat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6141#comment-13128</guid>
		<description>Did the 250k come before or after she became governor, though?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did the 250k come before or after she became governor, though?</p>
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		<title>By: Hurricane Palin Returns &#171; Vogue Republic</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/are-you-kidding-me/#comment-12588</link>
		<dc:creator>Hurricane Palin Returns &#171; Vogue Republic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6141#comment-12588</guid>
		<description>[...] Palin&#160;Returns  Post-4th there&#8217;s been a lot of cyber-blood spilled over soon to be ex-governor Sarah Palin largely because of Ross Douthat&#8217;s column, Palin and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Palin&nbsp;Returns  Post-4th there&#8217;s been a lot of cyber-blood spilled over soon to be ex-governor Sarah Palin largely because of Ross Douthat&#8217;s column, Palin and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: matoko_chan</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/are-you-kidding-me/#comment-12482</link>
		<dc:creator>matoko_chan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6141#comment-12482</guid>
		<description>&lt;a&gt;Noah gotz the 411.&lt;/a&gt;
It isn&#039;t class....its elites in a meritocracy.
Palin represented the impossible dream for Douthat....a commoner that could lead.
There are many components to l33tness....IQ is an important one.  But once an individual is upper right tail, they are automatically elite.
The cake is a lie.
;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a>Noah gotz the 411.</a><br />
It isn&#8217;t class&#8230;.its elites in a meritocracy.<br />
Palin represented the impossible dream for Douthat&#8230;.a commoner that could lead.<br />
There are many components to l33tness&#8230;.IQ is an important one.  But once an individual is upper right tail, they are automatically elite.<br />
The cake is a lie.<br />
;)</p>
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		<title>By: EngineerScotty</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/are-you-kidding-me/#comment-12450</link>
		<dc:creator>EngineerScotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6141#comment-12450</guid>
		<description>I think the reason that many on the Left dislike Palin is because of her politics, more than anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the reason that many on the Left dislike Palin is because of her politics, more than anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/are-you-kidding-me/#comment-12447</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6141#comment-12447</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know a single person who thinks NYC is better than North Carolina because they&#039;re antagonized by the &quot;salt of the earth.&quot; Mostly, they just think it&#039;s self-evidently better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know a single person who thinks NYC is better than North Carolina because they&#8217;re antagonized by the &#8220;salt of the earth.&#8221; Mostly, they just think it&#8217;s self-evidently better.</p>
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		<title>By: EngineerScotty</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/are-you-kidding-me/#comment-12441</link>
		<dc:creator>EngineerScotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6141#comment-12441</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a bit late to this thread, having been enjoying some time off, and only encountering Ross&#039;s column in the daily rag.  (Yes, I still read newspapers in dead tree form).  What struck me about Ross&#039; column are two things.
First, it seems as though Douthat were struggling mightily to find something nice to say about Sarah Palin--he damns her with faint praise throughout the column, interspersed with a few bits of qualified condemnation.  It&#039;s as though Ross knows she&#039;s completely and utterly unqualified for high public office (including her current gig), but can&#039;t say it...yet.  My expectation is that within a few months, the GOP establishment, including nationally-relevant pundits like Ross, will have thrown her under the bus completely (they are waiting for a shoe to drop); and by the end of the year, she&#039;ll be off the political radar completely.  A Nixon-like comeback is possible, but it will take at least a couple of Presidential terms, and a major, Vietnam-sized screwup by the Dems.
The second thing has little to do with Palin in particular.  Ross offered up Obama as an example of meritocracy in action; a point which I have little quibble with; and offered Palin as a specimen of  &quot;democratic&quot; ideals, someone rising to prominence despite the lack of inherent advantages.  What advantage, specifically?  Apparently, an Ivy League education/pedigree.
Much hay was made during the election that Obama was an elitist Ivy League liberal, yadda yadda.  I don&#039;t recall any criticism of Palin on the basis that she lacked same--her education &lt;em&gt;was&lt;/em&gt; questioned somewhat, but not because she graduated from a WAC school.  That said, Ross is onto something--the past four Presidents have Ivy League backgrounds (either Harvard or Yale), and the Supreme Court is dominated by Ivys.  I see no evidence that the public at large demands an Ivy League education--so what then, is up?
Pedigree is, I suspect, important in Beltway political culture--and it certainly is important in the profession of law and in the halls of Wall Street, both of which provide politics with much of its talent.  In my line of work (computer programming), it matters far less--like Palin, I attended a west coast land grant university (Oregon State in my case) widely perceived as a &quot;cow college&quot;; yet this doesn&#039;t hold me back in my profession.  But were I a graduate of the University of Oregon law school; it would be almost a certainty that I would never serve on the Court.
In short, Douthat has identified a real problem in our political culture.  At least its a problem if you assume, as I do, that an Ivy education isn&#039;t so vastly superior as to justify such a distrition--the fact that an ignoramus like George W. Bush possesses a degree from Yale would suggest otherwise.  But it isn&#039;t so much a problem with voters as it is a problem with certain realms outside politics.  And it certainly isn&#039;t a partisan issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a bit late to this thread, having been enjoying some time off, and only encountering Ross&#8217;s column in the daily rag.  (Yes, I still read newspapers in dead tree form).  What struck me about Ross&#8217; column are two things.<br />
First, it seems as though Douthat were struggling mightily to find something nice to say about Sarah Palin&#8211;he damns her with faint praise throughout the column, interspersed with a few bits of qualified condemnation.  It&#8217;s as though Ross knows she&#8217;s completely and utterly unqualified for high public office (including her current gig), but can&#8217;t say it&#8230;yet.  My expectation is that within a few months, the GOP establishment, including nationally-relevant pundits like Ross, will have thrown her under the bus completely (they are waiting for a shoe to drop); and by the end of the year, she&#8217;ll be off the political radar completely.  A Nixon-like comeback is possible, but it will take at least a couple of Presidential terms, and a major, Vietnam-sized screwup by the Dems.<br />
The second thing has little to do with Palin in particular.  Ross offered up Obama as an example of meritocracy in action; a point which I have little quibble with; and offered Palin as a specimen of  &#8220;democratic&#8221; ideals, someone rising to prominence despite the lack of inherent advantages.  What advantage, specifically?  Apparently, an Ivy League education/pedigree.<br />
Much hay was made during the election that Obama was an elitist Ivy League liberal, yadda yadda.  I don&#8217;t recall any criticism of Palin on the basis that she lacked same&#8211;her education <em>was</em> questioned somewhat, but not because she graduated from a WAC school.  That said, Ross is onto something&#8211;the past four Presidents have Ivy League backgrounds (either Harvard or Yale), and the Supreme Court is dominated by Ivys.  I see no evidence that the public at large demands an Ivy League education&#8211;so what then, is up?<br />
Pedigree is, I suspect, important in Beltway political culture&#8211;and it certainly is important in the profession of law and in the halls of Wall Street, both of which provide politics with much of its talent.  In my line of work (computer programming), it matters far less&#8211;like Palin, I attended a west coast land grant university (Oregon State in my case) widely perceived as a &#8220;cow college&#8221;; yet this doesn&#8217;t hold me back in my profession.  But were I a graduate of the University of Oregon law school; it would be almost a certainty that I would never serve on the Court.<br />
In short, Douthat has identified a real problem in our political culture.  At least its a problem if you assume, as I do, that an Ivy education isn&#8217;t so vastly superior as to justify such a distrition&#8211;the fact that an ignoramus like George W. Bush possesses a degree from Yale would suggest otherwise.  But it isn&#8217;t so much a problem with voters as it is a problem with certain realms outside politics.  And it certainly isn&#8217;t a partisan issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/are-you-kidding-me/#comment-12440</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6141#comment-12440</guid>
		<description>Helen, you&#039;re blind if you don&#039;t think that &quot;redneck antagonism&quot; (to steal your phrase) has a real element of &quot;we&#039;re better than they are.&quot; Remember, they&#039;re the ones that are &quot;real Americans,&quot; &quot;salt of the earth,&quot; virtuous, religious Heartlanders. It&#039;s the old myth about the country being more virtuous than the city.  At the same time, &quot;elitist antagonism&quot; wouldn&#039;t have nearly the numbers it does if there wasn&#039;t an element of &quot;What, just because I live in the city/Northeast/ Pacific Coast, they think I&#039;m not virtuous and not a real American?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helen, you&#8217;re blind if you don&#8217;t think that &#8220;redneck antagonism&#8221; (to steal your phrase) has a real element of &#8220;we&#8217;re better than they are.&#8221; Remember, they&#8217;re the ones that are &#8220;real Americans,&#8221; &#8220;salt of the earth,&#8221; virtuous, religious Heartlanders. It&#8217;s the old myth about the country being more virtuous than the city.  At the same time, &#8220;elitist antagonism&#8221; wouldn&#8217;t have nearly the numbers it does if there wasn&#8217;t an element of &#8220;What, just because I live in the city/Northeast/ Pacific Coast, they think I&#8217;m not virtuous and not a real American?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Victor Godolphin</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/are-you-kidding-me/#comment-12424</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor Godolphin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6141#comment-12424</guid>
		<description>Another interesting discussion of class in America is the public TV show &quot;People Like Us&quot;, which comes down heavily on the &quot;cultural cues&quot; side of the argument rather than the money side of things.  There are some hilarious interviews with impoverished WASPs that kind of settle the debate once and for all.

www.pbs.org/peoplelikeus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another interesting discussion of class in America is the public TV show &#8220;People Like Us&#8221;, which comes down heavily on the &#8220;cultural cues&#8221; side of the argument rather than the money side of things.  There are some hilarious interviews with impoverished WASPs that kind of settle the debate once and for all.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pbs.org/peoplelikeus" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/peoplelikeus</a></p>
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