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	<title>Comments on: You Say Elitist, I Say Potato</title>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/you-say-elitist-i-say-potato/#comment-12287</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yeesh, that reads harsher than I thought. I just meant to say (and then explain why) I find your reasoning to be unconvincing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeesh, that reads harsher than I thought. I just meant to say (and then explain why) I find your reasoning to be unconvincing.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/you-say-elitist-i-say-potato/#comment-12286</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@ Scott: fantastic post.

@ Katherine: I have to say I take issue with this. 

You seem to be saying that elitism needs to be divorced from its popular partners of liberalism and education because well...you define it differently and it pegs liberals as sitting on the unattractive side of the elite/non-elite divide.

First, the &quot;liberals are elitist&quot; meme isn&#039;t erroneous because it&#039;s mildly misleading (I&#039;d say changing demographics and the growth of the Democratic party make it nebulous that the rich fall neatly into the Republican fold - you can look at the PAC contributions from the finance and banking industries as more evidence of how that trend/divide isn&#039;t neat). It&#039;d have to be erroneous because it&#039;s untrue.  That&#039;s like saying the &quot;Obama is a Muslim&quot; meme is largely erroneous because it feeds into the assumption that the Muslims are out to get us. No, it&#039;s erroneous because President Obama isn&#039;t a muslim. Likewise, I think the question of whether liberals are elitists cannot be answered or judged based on whatever misperception arises from the ether of our political consciousness. 

Second, when you set out to debunk the education as elitist definition you ignore the class/wealth aspects of the word that so define your first paragraph discussion of the problems of using elitism in our political discourse. I realise this is a comment and not an essay but surely, you can expand on a broader view of elitism here that incorporates what you were saying about it two paragraphs earlier.

All in all, I don&#039;t think that the use/misuse of elitism is harmful and wrong because it unfairly maligns liberals, educated folk, and especially educated liberals. It&#039;s harmful and wrong because it&#039;s used as a critique-free &lt;i&gt; ad hominem &lt;/i&gt; bludgeon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Scott: fantastic post.</p>
<p>@ Katherine: I have to say I take issue with this. </p>
<p>You seem to be saying that elitism needs to be divorced from its popular partners of liberalism and education because well&#8230;you define it differently and it pegs liberals as sitting on the unattractive side of the elite/non-elite divide.</p>
<p>First, the &#8220;liberals are elitist&#8221; meme isn&#8217;t erroneous because it&#8217;s mildly misleading (I&#8217;d say changing demographics and the growth of the Democratic party make it nebulous that the rich fall neatly into the Republican fold &#8211; you can look at the PAC contributions from the finance and banking industries as more evidence of how that trend/divide isn&#8217;t neat). It&#8217;d have to be erroneous because it&#8217;s untrue.  That&#8217;s like saying the &#8220;Obama is a Muslim&#8221; meme is largely erroneous because it feeds into the assumption that the Muslims are out to get us. No, it&#8217;s erroneous because President Obama isn&#8217;t a muslim. Likewise, I think the question of whether liberals are elitists cannot be answered or judged based on whatever misperception arises from the ether of our political consciousness. </p>
<p>Second, when you set out to debunk the education as elitist definition you ignore the class/wealth aspects of the word that so define your first paragraph discussion of the problems of using elitism in our political discourse. I realise this is a comment and not an essay but surely, you can expand on a broader view of elitism here that incorporates what you were saying about it two paragraphs earlier.</p>
<p>All in all, I don&#8217;t think that the use/misuse of elitism is harmful and wrong because it unfairly maligns liberals, educated folk, and especially educated liberals. It&#8217;s harmful and wrong because it&#8217;s used as a critique-free <i> ad hominem </i> bludgeon.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/you-say-elitist-i-say-potato/#comment-12284</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6090#comment-12284</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; And what the hell is elitist supposed to mean. I’m a Steelers fan and they, as the super bowl winners are the elite, is that bad? In a meritocracy, which Americans like to believe we are, then isn’t being in the elite a good thing? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think this is a very interesting and good question. Personally, I&#039;ve always found it really interesting how our society places a high premium on children to achieve (go to college, get a good job, be a doctor/lawyer/President/etc...). Yet when people actually do that, they suddenly become untrustworthy, arrogant elitists. We like success and push success...only to deride the successful. It&#039;s odd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> And what the hell is elitist supposed to mean. I’m a Steelers fan and they, as the super bowl winners are the elite, is that bad? In a meritocracy, which Americans like to believe we are, then isn’t being in the elite a good thing? </p></blockquote>
<p>I think this is a very interesting and good question. Personally, I&#8217;ve always found it really interesting how our society places a high premium on children to achieve (go to college, get a good job, be a doctor/lawyer/President/etc&#8230;). Yet when people actually do that, they suddenly become untrustworthy, arrogant elitists. We like success and push success&#8230;only to deride the successful. It&#8217;s odd.</p>
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		<title>By: mike farmer</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/you-say-elitist-i-say-potato/#comment-12115</link>
		<dc:creator>mike farmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6090#comment-12115</guid>
		<description>I simply take great pride in being more attuned to the common person than most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I simply take great pride in being more attuned to the common person than most.</p>
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		<title>By: mike farmer</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/you-say-elitist-i-say-potato/#comment-12114</link>
		<dc:creator>mike farmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6090#comment-12114</guid>
		<description>There is elitism which is recognized by others based on accomplishment and substance, then there is phony elitism which is based on attitude and image.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is elitism which is recognized by others based on accomplishment and substance, then there is phony elitism which is based on attitude and image.</p>
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		<title>By: Consumatopia</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/you-say-elitist-i-say-potato/#comment-12111</link>
		<dc:creator>Consumatopia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>By that definition, would Palin&#039;s resignation, refusing to be a dead fish going with the flow, be an act of elitism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By that definition, would Palin&#8217;s resignation, refusing to be a dead fish going with the flow, be an act of elitism?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike at The Big Stick</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/you-say-elitist-i-say-potato/#comment-12090</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike at The Big Stick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In my opinion, liberal &#039;elitism&#039; was best described by Jonah Goldberg as, &quot;The tendency to pass up a good solution trying to find a great one.&quot;

They aren&#039;t all elites by any means but they over-rely on thinking and spend a bit too much time dismissing experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion, liberal &#8216;elitism&#8217; was best described by Jonah Goldberg as, &#8220;The tendency to pass up a good solution trying to find a great one.&#8221;</p>
<p>They aren&#8217;t all elites by any means but they over-rely on thinking and spend a bit too much time dismissing experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/you-say-elitist-i-say-potato/#comment-12084</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=6090#comment-12084</guid>
		<description>Excellent post.

I think the &quot;liberals are elitists&quot; meme is largely erroneous because it feeds into the assumption that the wealthy are liberals and the middle/working class are conservatives, which is pretty much the opposite of actual voting patterns.  (The more wealthy people are, the more likely they are to vote for conservatives.)

But the automatic assumption from some that rural conservatives are dumb hicks is just as bad.  I&#039;ve lived in a small town for one summer.  The people were the friendliest, most helpful and considerate folks I&#039;ve ever met.  My supervisor at work invited me over for dinner, which was homemade quiche.  When some conservatives cite the superiority of small-town life, they&#039;re working from something even if it&#039;s an overgeneralization.

Besides the conflating of &quot;elitist&quot; with &quot;liberal&quot;, the other problem is conflating &quot;educated&quot; with &quot;elitist&quot;.  Elitism isn&#039;t being educated; it&#039;s about thinking that education alone makes you better than other people.  Your description of how you operate at work illustrates the polar opposite of elitism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post.</p>
<p>I think the &#8220;liberals are elitists&#8221; meme is largely erroneous because it feeds into the assumption that the wealthy are liberals and the middle/working class are conservatives, which is pretty much the opposite of actual voting patterns.  (The more wealthy people are, the more likely they are to vote for conservatives.)</p>
<p>But the automatic assumption from some that rural conservatives are dumb hicks is just as bad.  I&#8217;ve lived in a small town for one summer.  The people were the friendliest, most helpful and considerate folks I&#8217;ve ever met.  My supervisor at work invited me over for dinner, which was homemade quiche.  When some conservatives cite the superiority of small-town life, they&#8217;re working from something even if it&#8217;s an overgeneralization.</p>
<p>Besides the conflating of &#8220;elitist&#8221; with &#8220;liberal&#8221;, the other problem is conflating &#8220;educated&#8221; with &#8220;elitist&#8221;.  Elitism isn&#8217;t being educated; it&#8217;s about thinking that education alone makes you better than other people.  Your description of how you operate at work illustrates the polar opposite of elitism.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/you-say-elitist-i-say-potato/#comment-12077</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh greginak, stop being such a pansy elitist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh greginak, stop being such a pansy elitist.</p>
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		<title>By: greginak</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/07/you-say-elitist-i-say-potato/#comment-12074</link>
		<dc:creator>greginak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Call it like he sees it, is a euphemism for being a loud mouth jerk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Call it like he sees it, is a euphemism for being a loud mouth jerk.</p>
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