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	<title>Comments on: Food For Thought: Debating Organics</title>
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	<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/</link>
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		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/#comment-18119</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7653#comment-18119</guid>
		<description>Fossil fuels will not &quot;gradually get less common.&quot; Hubbert&#039;s Peak posits that production from any given source increases exponentially, peaks and then declines exponentially. When the Saudi supergiant fields start declining exponentially, oil will get less common very quickly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fossil fuels will not &#8220;gradually get less common.&#8221; Hubbert&#8217;s Peak posits that production from any given source increases exponentially, peaks and then declines exponentially. When the Saudi supergiant fields start declining exponentially, oil will get less common very quickly.</p>
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		<title>By: North</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/#comment-18118</link>
		<dc:creator>North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7653#comment-18118</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the links. I&#039;ll review them as soon as I get a chance and see what they say. 

However,

Seedsofdeception.com? Now there is an objective source!
(I just had to get that dig in :P)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the links. I&#8217;ll review them as soon as I get a chance and see what they say. </p>
<p>However,</p>
<p>Seedsofdeception.com? Now there is an objective source!<br />
(I just had to get that dig in :P)</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/#comment-18105</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7653#comment-18105</guid>
		<description>We have been blessed to be able to buy eggs from a place where we can feed the chickens ourselves. (We only get dozen a month from there and you wouldn&#039;t believe how expensive they are.)

But, lemme tell ya, these chickens are eating free range cage free insects in addition to whatever else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have been blessed to be able to buy eggs from a place where we can feed the chickens ourselves. (We only get dozen a month from there and you wouldn&#8217;t believe how expensive they are.)</p>
<p>But, lemme tell ya, these chickens are eating free range cage free insects in addition to whatever else.</p>
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		<title>By: Sully Fick</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/#comment-18101</link>
		<dc:creator>Sully Fick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7653#comment-18101</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m trying to post other links and quotes, but they aren&#039;t showing up.  Maybe they&#039;re dumped into spam or moderated comments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m trying to post other links and quotes, but they aren&#8217;t showing up.  Maybe they&#8217;re dumped into spam or moderated comments?</p>
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		<title>By: Sully Fick</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/#comment-18100</link>
		<dc:creator>Sully Fick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7653#comment-18100</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m trying to post other links and quotes, but they aren&#039;t showing up.  Maybe they&#039;re dumped into spam or moderated comments?

About some research: http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science

About gene transfer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food#Gene_transfer

Some of the science:  http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/GeneticRoulette/HealthRisksofGMFoodsSummaryDebate/index.cfm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m trying to post other links and quotes, but they aren&#8217;t showing up.  Maybe they&#8217;re dumped into spam or moderated comments?</p>
<p>About some research: <a href="http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science" rel="nofollow">http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science</a></p>
<p>About gene transfer: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food#Gene_transfer" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food#Gene_transfer</a></p>
<p>Some of the science:  <a href="http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/GeneticRoulette/HealthRisksofGMFoodsSummaryDebate/index.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/GeneticRoulette/HealthRisksofGMFoodsSummaryDebate/index.cfm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sully Fick</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/#comment-18099</link>
		<dc:creator>Sully Fick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7653#comment-18099</guid>
		<description>And here: http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science

Or here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food#Gene_transfer

And, if you&#039;d like to read some of the science:  http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/GeneticRoulette/HealthRisksofGMFoodsSummaryDebate/index.cfm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here: <a href="http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science" rel="nofollow">http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science</a></p>
<p>Or here: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food#Gene_transfer" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food#Gene_transfer</a></p>
<p>And, if you&#8217;d like to read some of the science:  <a href="http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/GeneticRoulette/HealthRisksofGMFoodsSummaryDebate/index.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/GeneticRoulette/HealthRisksofGMFoodsSummaryDebate/index.cfm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sully Fick</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/#comment-18098</link>
		<dc:creator>Sully Fick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7653#comment-18098</guid>
		<description>And here: http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science/

&lt;blockquote&gt;In 2002 Nature published an article about an Ohio State University professor who was conducting research on biotech sunflowers. After her initial research indicated that the seed would allow wild sunflowers to proliferate as weeds, Pioneer Hi-Bred and Dow AgroSciences refused to grant her permission to use the seed for follow up studies. Something similar happened to William Meredith, a USDA geneticist, in the late 1990s when Monsanto was trying to bring its biotech cotton to market. Meredith was denied access to the seeds, since in order to obtain them he would have had to sign an agreement with Monsanto agreeing not to test them.

To fully understand how alarming the situation is, consider how biotech crops and foods make their way from lab to field to plate in the United States. &lt;b&gt;The USDA does not conduct its own tests on biotech crop varieties when deregulating and approving them for planting in the United States. Instead, it relies on industry studies and data to access their safety on the environment and human health.&lt;/b&gt;

[...]

A 2003 study published in the journal Nutrition and Health examined peer-reviewed studies of animals fed genetically-engineered foods. Of the 10 studies identified, the five carried out in collaboration with the industry found no adverse health effects. But of the five independent studies, all found adverse effects after feeding lab animals genetically engineered food for only 10 to 14 days.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here: <a href="http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science/" rel="nofollow">http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science/</a></p>
<blockquote><p>In 2002 Nature published an article about an Ohio State University professor who was conducting research on biotech sunflowers. After her initial research indicated that the seed would allow wild sunflowers to proliferate as weeds, Pioneer Hi-Bred and Dow AgroSciences refused to grant her permission to use the seed for follow up studies. Something similar happened to William Meredith, a USDA geneticist, in the late 1990s when Monsanto was trying to bring its biotech cotton to market. Meredith was denied access to the seeds, since in order to obtain them he would have had to sign an agreement with Monsanto agreeing not to test them.</p>
<p>To fully understand how alarming the situation is, consider how biotech crops and foods make their way from lab to field to plate in the United States. <b>The USDA does not conduct its own tests on biotech crop varieties when deregulating and approving them for planting in the United States. Instead, it relies on industry studies and data to access their safety on the environment and human health.</b></p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>A 2003 study published in the journal Nutrition and Health examined peer-reviewed studies of animals fed genetically-engineered foods. Of the 10 studies identified, the five carried out in collaboration with the industry found no adverse health effects. But of the five independent studies, all found adverse effects after feeding lab animals genetically engineered food for only 10 to 14 days.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Sully Fick</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/#comment-18095</link>
		<dc:creator>Sully Fick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7653#comment-18095</guid>
		<description>It seems that you haven&#039;t actually looked at the science (or talked to any scientists or researchers) if you believe that &quot;nothing concrete has been produced in terms of the predicted negative side effects&quot;.

&lt;a&gt;From here:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;“No truly independent research can be legally conducted on many critical questions,” the scientists wrote in a statement submitted to the Environmental Protection Agency. 

[...]

“If a company can control the research that appears in the public domain, they can reduce the potential negatives that can come out of any research,” said Ken Ostlie, an entomologist at the University of Minnesota, who was one of the scientists who had signed the statement. 

[...]

The companies “have the potential to launder the data, the information that is submitted to E.P.A.,” said Elson J. Shields, a professor of entomology at Cornell.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that you haven&#8217;t actually looked at the science (or talked to any scientists or researchers) if you believe that &#8220;nothing concrete has been produced in terms of the predicted negative side effects&#8221;.</p>
<p><a>From here:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>“No truly independent research can be legally conducted on many critical questions,” the scientists wrote in a statement submitted to the Environmental Protection Agency. </p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>“If a company can control the research that appears in the public domain, they can reduce the potential negatives that can come out of any research,” said Ken Ostlie, an entomologist at the University of Minnesota, who was one of the scientists who had signed the statement. </p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>The companies “have the potential to launder the data, the information that is submitted to E.P.A.,” said Elson J. Shields, a professor of entomology at Cornell.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Sully Fick</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/#comment-18094</link>
		<dc:creator>Sully Fick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7653#comment-18094</guid>
		<description>It seems that you haven&#039;t actually looked at the science (or talked to any scientists or researchers) if you believe that &quot;nothing concrete has been produced in terms of the predicted negative side effects&quot;.

&lt;a&gt;From here:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;“No truly independent research can be legally conducted on many critical questions,” the scientists wrote in a statement submitted to the Environmental Protection Agency. 

[...]

“If a company can control the research that appears in the public domain, they can reduce the potential negatives that can come out of any research,” said Ken Ostlie, an entomologist at the University of Minnesota, who was one of the scientists who had signed the statement. 

[...]

The companies “have the potential to launder the data, the information that is submitted to E.P.A.,” said Elson J. Shields, a professor of entomology at Cornell.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And here: http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science

&lt;blockquote&gt;In 2002 Nature published an article about an Ohio State University professor who was conducting research on biotech sunflowers. After her initial research indicated that the seed would allow wild sunflowers to proliferate as weeds, Pioneer Hi-Bred and Dow AgroSciences refused to grant her permission to use the seed for follow up studies. Something similar happened to William Meredith, a USDA geneticist, in the late 1990s when Monsanto was trying to bring its biotech cotton to market. Meredith was denied access to the seeds, since in order to obtain them he would have had to sign an agreement with Monsanto agreeing not to test them.

To fully understand how alarming the situation is, consider how biotech crops and foods make their way from lab to field to plate in the United States. &lt;b&gt;The USDA does not conduct its own tests on biotech crop varieties when deregulating and approving them for planting in the United States. Instead, it relies on industry studies and data to access their safety on the environment and human health.&lt;/b&gt;

[...]

A 2003 study published in the journal Nutrition and Health examined peer-reviewed studies of animals fed genetically-engineered foods. Of the 10 studies identified, the five carried out in collaboration with the industry found no adverse health effects. But of the five independent studies, all found adverse effects after feeding lab animals genetically engineered food for only 10 to 14 days.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that you haven&#8217;t actually looked at the science (or talked to any scientists or researchers) if you believe that &#8220;nothing concrete has been produced in terms of the predicted negative side effects&#8221;.</p>
<p><a>From here:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>“No truly independent research can be legally conducted on many critical questions,” the scientists wrote in a statement submitted to the Environmental Protection Agency. </p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>“If a company can control the research that appears in the public domain, they can reduce the potential negatives that can come out of any research,” said Ken Ostlie, an entomologist at the University of Minnesota, who was one of the scientists who had signed the statement. </p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>The companies “have the potential to launder the data, the information that is submitted to E.P.A.,” said Elson J. Shields, a professor of entomology at Cornell.</p></blockquote>
<p>And here: <a href="http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science" rel="nofollow">http://www.grist.org/article/Genetically-modified-science</a></p>
<blockquote><p>In 2002 Nature published an article about an Ohio State University professor who was conducting research on biotech sunflowers. After her initial research indicated that the seed would allow wild sunflowers to proliferate as weeds, Pioneer Hi-Bred and Dow AgroSciences refused to grant her permission to use the seed for follow up studies. Something similar happened to William Meredith, a USDA geneticist, in the late 1990s when Monsanto was trying to bring its biotech cotton to market. Meredith was denied access to the seeds, since in order to obtain them he would have had to sign an agreement with Monsanto agreeing not to test them.</p>
<p>To fully understand how alarming the situation is, consider how biotech crops and foods make their way from lab to field to plate in the United States. <b>The USDA does not conduct its own tests on biotech crop varieties when deregulating and approving them for planting in the United States. Instead, it relies on industry studies and data to access their safety on the environment and human health.</b></p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>A 2003 study published in the journal Nutrition and Health examined peer-reviewed studies of animals fed genetically-engineered foods. Of the 10 studies identified, the five carried out in collaboration with the industry found no adverse health effects. But of the five independent studies, all found adverse effects after feeding lab animals genetically engineered food for only 10 to 14 days.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Sully Fick</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/food-for-thought-debating-organics/#comment-18092</link>
		<dc:creator>Sully Fick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7653#comment-18092</guid>
		<description>Tried to post a reply, but it doesn&#039;t show up.  Curious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tried to post a reply, but it doesn&#8217;t show up.  Curious.</p>
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