Comments on: The Eye of the Beholder http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/ Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:33:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Michael Drew http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/#comment-16293 Michael Drew Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:50:06 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7144#comment-16293 Just to keep the solitary ball rolling... the above is not withstanding the numerous reports of hangings in effigy, death threats, and physical altercations/physical intimidation of members of Congress regarding this issue, all of which absolutely does cross clear lines, which I am going to decline here to define precisely in hopes that there is general agreement that it is abundantly clear that is true, so that definition of the lines is not necessary. (And in relative confidence that no one is following ramblings in any case...) Just to keep the solitary ball rolling… the above is not withstanding the numerous reports of hangings in effigy, death threats, and physical altercations/physical intimidation of members of Congress regarding this issue, all of which absolutely does cross clear lines, which I am going to decline here to define precisely in hopes that there is general agreement that it is abundantly clear that is true, so that definition of the lines is not necessary. (And in relative confidence that no one is following ramblings in any case…)

]]> By: Michael Drew http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/#comment-16205 Michael Drew Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:19:47 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7144#comment-16205 And by the way, the same goes for Josh Marshall's moaning about people "showing up as a mob and shouting people down" at health care (or just general) town halls/listening sessions. I don't deny this view threatens to send us spiraling down into the depths of political interaction. But it is better to be clear that such a thing is possible; there are no rules preventing it, merely us in our decisions about how to conduct ourselves politically. (To be clear, JMM isn't arguing so far as I can tell that the shout-downs cross a red line, but rather that it's not accurate to say it is the same as what Leftern activists did in the SocSec privatization debate. Right and fair and accurate and proper. But it's best to be clear that it can all get as bad as we want it to be; we're the only ones who can stop it...) I'm realizing may be twisting at windmills in this thread... And by the way, the same goes for Josh Marshall’s moaning about people “showing up as a mob and shouting people down” at health care (or just general) town halls/listening sessions. I don’t deny this view threatens to send us spiraling down into the depths of political interaction. But it is better to be clear that such a thing is possible; there are no rules preventing it, merely us in our decisions about how to conduct ourselves politically.

(To be clear, JMM isn’t arguing so far as I can tell that the shout-downs cross a red line, but rather that it’s not accurate to say it is the same as what Leftern activists did in the SocSec privatization debate. Right and fair and accurate and proper. But it’s best to be clear that it can all get as bad as we want it to be; we’re the only ones who can stop it…)

I’m realizing may be twisting at windmills in this thread…

]]> By: Scott H. Payne http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/#comment-16160 Scott H. Payne Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:31:30 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7144#comment-16160 In terms of the racial overtones of the image, I think it's worth noting, as per the update above, the image's original creator (though not the creator of the poster) seems to be a Palestinian student residing in Chicago. While it isn't dispositive of the absence of any intended racial sentiments in the image, the fact that the image seems to have originated with a man of colour certainly adds to the arguments against an overtly racial theme (as opposed to vice versa). In terms of the racial overtones of the image, I think it’s worth noting, as per the update above, the image’s original creator (though not the creator of the poster) seems to be a Palestinian student residing in Chicago. While it isn’t dispositive of the absence of any intended racial sentiments in the image, the fact that the image seems to have originated with a man of colour certainly adds to the arguments against an overtly racial theme (as opposed to vice versa).

]]> By: Mr. Prosser http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/#comment-16149 Mr. Prosser Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:33:17 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7144#comment-16149 Late to the game as usual. The poster is hard to walk past. Mostly I think because of the eyes, but as you say the "socialism" ruins it. The Joker is anarchy personified. That's why he caught on as a bad guy in the first place when it was only kids who read comics. Frankly I would prefer to see a good poster of the president as Alfred E. Newman to compare with the picture of W as Alfred which I think captured him perfectly. Late to the game as usual. The poster is hard to walk past. Mostly I think because of the eyes, but as you say the “socialism” ruins it. The Joker is anarchy personified. That’s why he caught on as a bad guy in the first place when it was only kids who read comics. Frankly I would prefer to see a good poster of the president as Alfred E. Newman to compare with the picture of W as Alfred which I think captured him perfectly.

]]> By: Michael Drew http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/#comment-16128 Michael Drew Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:41:55 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7144#comment-16128 In other words, don't be dumb or ign'nt. In other words, don’t be dumb or ign’nt.

]]> By: Michael Drew http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/#comment-16127 Michael Drew Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:39:37 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7144#comment-16127 That's just tough cookies -- good move by the Dems. Rules in political combat are ad hoc, the endeavor to say, "Well it's okay for their side, why not our side, or it was okay last election, why not this election" is exactly what gets people in trouble. You've just got to have a political antenna and know there aren't any consistent rules. That’s just tough cookies — good move by the Dems. Rules in political combat are ad hoc, the endeavor to say, “Well it’s okay for their side, why not our side, or it was okay last election, why not this election” is exactly what gets people in trouble. You’ve just got to have a political antenna and know there aren’t any consistent rules.

]]> By: Bob Cheeks http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/#comment-16126 Bob Cheeks Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:36:22 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7144#comment-16126 If you're going to patter, and you want it to matter, you gotta be ironic and pseudo-intellectual, if you wanna be effectual! If you’re going to patter,
and you want it to matter,
you gotta be ironic and pseudo-intellectual,
if you wanna be effectual!

]]> By: greginak http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/#comment-16121 greginak Wed, 05 Aug 2009 03:19:24 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7144#comment-16121 wow that was some quality ironic pseudo-intellectual patter. you were trying to be ironic and satirical, weren't you? wow that was some quality ironic pseudo-intellectual patter.

you were trying to be ironic and satirical, weren’t you?

]]> By: Bob Cheeks http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/#comment-16120 Bob Cheeks Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:29:01 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7144#comment-16120 Scott, I think the doctrinaire existence has a pronounced impression on the workings of the mind. The doctrinaire thinking has to exclude truth from the horizon of reality but what saves us and allows us to recognize it (if we choose) is that it can't be removed from reality itself. One example of doctrinaire thinking is the adage that we "live in a post-Christian age." This is a very general symbolization of a recent phenomenon experienced as an egophanic revolt that has widely captured academics in science (for example.) It was a revolt against theology and metaphysics that Voegelin tells us did not "recover the tension of existence" that was derived from symbols that in the end led to a "new doctrine" of world-immanent awareness e.g. the hypostatization of the immanent pole of existence e.g. the ain't no God, dude, so don't worry, be happy. The ideologue, Voegelin writes, "appeals to the reality, not the truth experienced...." He is a man of action who with a "shell of doctrine (Obama's socialist principles), devoid of an engendering reality, and applying a heavy dose of libido dominandi, by force of his personality-in the style of Nietzsche's symbol of self-salvation-he assumes the role of Savior, or Superman, or the progenitor of a new utopian dreamworld where, for example, medicine is free but you may be required for the sake of the Superman to sacrifice your life. "We can characterize the ideologue's 'post-Christian age,' therefore," Voegelin writes, "as a symbol engendered by his libidinous dream of self-salvation." Thus the Joker visage is perfectly suited to our president, because it reflects a profound distortion of being and we haven't even begun the inquiry related to the Gifted One's dialectical speculation! Scott, you fellows are gifted dudes, but my criticism is related to that which is distorted and why. It was Voegelin's project his entire life...a search for the truth of reality. You guys are dealing with particularities, you're allowing 'them' to frame the question...it's all much simpler than that. Scott, I think the doctrinaire existence has a pronounced impression on the workings of the mind. The doctrinaire thinking has to exclude truth from the horizon of reality but what saves us and allows us to recognize it (if we choose) is that it can’t be removed from reality itself.

One example of doctrinaire thinking is the adage that we “live in a post-Christian age.” This is a very general symbolization of a recent phenomenon experienced as an egophanic revolt that has widely captured academics in science (for example.) It was a revolt against theology and metaphysics that Voegelin tells us did not “recover the tension of existence” that was derived from symbols that in the end led to a “new doctrine” of world-immanent awareness e.g. the hypostatization of the immanent pole of existence e.g. the ain’t no God, dude, so don’t worry, be happy.
The ideologue, Voegelin writes, “appeals to the reality, not the truth experienced….” He is a man of action who with a “shell of doctrine (Obama’s socialist principles), devoid of an engendering reality, and applying a heavy dose of libido dominandi, by force of his personality-in the style of Nietzsche’s symbol of self-salvation-he assumes the role of Savior, or Superman, or the progenitor of a new utopian dreamworld where, for example, medicine is free but you may be required for the sake of the Superman to sacrifice your life.
“We can characterize the ideologue’s ‘post-Christian age,’ therefore,” Voegelin writes, “as a symbol engendered by his libidinous dream of self-salvation.”
Thus the Joker visage is perfectly suited to our president, because it reflects a profound distortion of being and we haven’t even begun the inquiry related to the Gifted One’s dialectical speculation!
Scott, you fellows are gifted dudes, but my criticism is related to that which is distorted and why. It was Voegelin’s project his entire life…a search for the truth of reality. You guys are dealing with particularities, you’re allowing ‘them’ to frame the question…it’s all much simpler than that.

]]> By: Bob http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/08/the-eye-of-the-beholder/#comment-16114 Bob Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:06:43 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=7144#comment-16114 I did not say Obama was off limits. Sure, use any Cuban freedom fighter you like. I did not say Obama was off limits.

Sure, use any Cuban freedom fighter you like.

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