<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Reform Conservatism, Not Conservatives</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:38:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: The Young And The Dissident: Meditations On The Reformers From Some Ordinary Gentlemen &#171; Around The Sphere</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/#comment-27396</link>
		<dc:creator>The Young And The Dissident: Meditations On The Reformers From Some Ordinary Gentlemen &#171; Around The Sphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10057#comment-27396</guid>
		<description>[...] Mark Thompson: It’s clear to me that Conor and to a lesser extent Rod don’t understand what Jamelle, Freddie, E.D., and myself have been driving at in our various critiques of reform-minded conservatism. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mark Thompson: It’s clear to me that Conor and to a lesser extent Rod don’t understand what Jamelle, Freddie, E.D., and myself have been driving at in our various critiques of reform-minded conservatism. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/#comment-27146</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10057#comment-27146</guid>
		<description>Mike, that&#039;s &quot;free psychoanalysis&quot;.

If someone asks a direct question, to respond by questioning the motives of the asker is a tactic that usually works... but it&#039;s still not answering the direct question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, that&#8217;s &#8220;free psychoanalysis&#8221;.</p>
<p>If someone asks a direct question, to respond by questioning the motives of the asker is a tactic that usually works&#8230; but it&#8217;s still not answering the direct question.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike at The Big Stick</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/#comment-27142</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike at The Big Stick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10057#comment-27142</guid>
		<description>Concerning the &#039;party of no&#039; does anyone &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; think liberals want the GOP to suggest alternatives for any reason other than to say that their ideas are dumb? Are we to buy the line that Democrats really value conservative input on health care reform?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerning the &#8216;party of no&#8217; does anyone <i>really</i> think liberals want the GOP to suggest alternatives for any reason other than to say that their ideas are dumb? Are we to buy the line that Democrats really value conservative input on health care reform?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Koz</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/#comment-27134</link>
		<dc:creator>Koz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10057#comment-27134</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Party of No may be just fine for being a minority opposition party. It is not, however, fine for actually governing...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

This is an odd situation (for me at least) where it&#039;s easier to argue a stronger assertion, because the context is clearer.  That is, not only are mainstream conservatives fit to govern right now, we are the only ones who are.

The GOP is not going to take actual control of either house of Congress until Jan 2011, though it may assume de facto control over the political debate sooner.  Stopping the health care bill, stopping cap-and-trade, and stopping the &quot;stimulus&quot; packages is frankly a big enough agenda until then.  Though, I agree with you that the party would be in better shape, both politically and for governance, if the GOP gets its head past being the Party of No ASAP.

Let&#039;s also note this: it&#039;s mostly the party&#039;s fault that they are currently constituted as the Party of No.  But not entirely.  Dissident conservatives such as Mr. Bartlett (but not just him of course) are trying to get us to acquiesce to being fleas on the Democrats&#039; dog.  Not only is that horrible political advice, it&#039;s also fails as a substantive agenda and most importantly fails the aspirations and economic livelihood for America in general.  The hope for prosperity for America (and political success for Republicans) crucially depends on that not happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Party of No may be just fine for being a minority opposition party. It is not, however, fine for actually governing&#8230;&#8221;</i></p>
<p>This is an odd situation (for me at least) where it&#8217;s easier to argue a stronger assertion, because the context is clearer.  That is, not only are mainstream conservatives fit to govern right now, we are the only ones who are.</p>
<p>The GOP is not going to take actual control of either house of Congress until Jan 2011, though it may assume de facto control over the political debate sooner.  Stopping the health care bill, stopping cap-and-trade, and stopping the &#8220;stimulus&#8221; packages is frankly a big enough agenda until then.  Though, I agree with you that the party would be in better shape, both politically and for governance, if the GOP gets its head past being the Party of No ASAP.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s also note this: it&#8217;s mostly the party&#8217;s fault that they are currently constituted as the Party of No.  But not entirely.  Dissident conservatives such as Mr. Bartlett (but not just him of course) are trying to get us to acquiesce to being fleas on the Democrats&#8217; dog.  Not only is that horrible political advice, it&#8217;s also fails as a substantive agenda and most importantly fails the aspirations and economic livelihood for America in general.  The hope for prosperity for America (and political success for Republicans) crucially depends on that not happening.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/#comment-27131</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10057#comment-27131</guid>
		<description>Sorry about that. I picked up my beloved wife from work last night and we had this errand to run, then that one, then it came out that our anniversary is coming up on Monday, and we had the revelation that I still had a B&amp;N gift card from my birthday left over... as well as an Olive Garden gift card... and we can&#039;t do anything on Monday itself...

So by the time I got home last night, it was bedtime.

So I didn&#039;t get to work on this at all.

The biggest problem, I think, is in one sentence.

If we can change the sentence &quot;Obama won the White House with a percentage of the popular vote exceeded only by Ronald Reagan in 1984.&quot;, to &quot;Obama won the White House with a percentage of the popular vote so large that you have to go back to Ronald Reagan in 1984 to see it exceeded.&quot;, I think that will fix the problem.

So, once again, have at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about that. I picked up my beloved wife from work last night and we had this errand to run, then that one, then it came out that our anniversary is coming up on Monday, and we had the revelation that I still had a B&amp;N gift card from my birthday left over&#8230; as well as an Olive Garden gift card&#8230; and we can&#8217;t do anything on Monday itself&#8230;</p>
<p>So by the time I got home last night, it was bedtime.</p>
<p>So I didn&#8217;t get to work on this at all.</p>
<p>The biggest problem, I think, is in one sentence.</p>
<p>If we can change the sentence &#8220;Obama won the White House with a percentage of the popular vote exceeded only by Ronald Reagan in 1984.&#8221;, to &#8220;Obama won the White House with a percentage of the popular vote so large that you have to go back to Ronald Reagan in 1984 to see it exceeded.&#8221;, I think that will fix the problem.</p>
<p>So, once again, have at it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Koz</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/#comment-27127</link>
		<dc:creator>Koz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10057#comment-27127</guid>
		<description>Right.  And he argued himself in that second link, his &quot;ideological issues&quot; are mostly misplaced retaliations for his personal resentments against the GOP and mainstream conservatives.  It&#039;s understandable why he might go that route, but no one else needs to.

As I&#039;ve argued elsewhere, dissident conservatism as we know it is pretty lame, so being a dissident conservative doesn&#039;t necessarily speak well for Mr. Bartlett.  But, to the extent he is to be distinguished within that group, most dissident conservatives have an airy, nonchalant understanding of our political process.  To his credit (or not), Mr. Bartlett has no such delusions.  He understands perfectly well the bipartisan trench warfare parts of our political system, and explicitly attempts to sell us out &lt;i&gt;to&lt;/i&gt; the Democrats.  That&#039;s where that Tessio thing comes in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right.  And he argued himself in that second link, his &#8220;ideological issues&#8221; are mostly misplaced retaliations for his personal resentments against the GOP and mainstream conservatives.  It&#8217;s understandable why he might go that route, but no one else needs to.</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve argued elsewhere, dissident conservatism as we know it is pretty lame, so being a dissident conservative doesn&#8217;t necessarily speak well for Mr. Bartlett.  But, to the extent he is to be distinguished within that group, most dissident conservatives have an airy, nonchalant understanding of our political process.  To his credit (or not), Mr. Bartlett has no such delusions.  He understands perfectly well the bipartisan trench warfare parts of our political system, and explicitly attempts to sell us out <i>to</i> the Democrats.  That&#8217;s where that Tessio thing comes in.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Justin_Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/#comment-27097</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin_Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10057#comment-27097</guid>
		<description>Bartlett makes no normative statement with respect to increased spending in the link you provided. He acknowledges that neither party has an appetite for spending controls. But an observation of reality is far from a normative statement. 

My earlier comment was not meant to imply that Bartlett holds no animosity towards the GOP in its current form. Bartlett spoke out about what he saw as the previous administration&#039;s flaws and was read out of the conservative movement as a result. That he continues to have ideological issues with the current GOP leadership does not diminish that history.

Further, what about Bartlett&#039;s critique- &lt;i&gt;&quot;All I see is pandering to the party’s crazies like the birthers . In the short run that may be enough to pick up a few congressional seats next year, but I see no way a Republican can retake the White House for the foreseeable future.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;- is substantively different from any other dissident&#039;s view?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bartlett makes no normative statement with respect to increased spending in the link you provided. He acknowledges that neither party has an appetite for spending controls. But an observation of reality is far from a normative statement. </p>
<p>My earlier comment was not meant to imply that Bartlett holds no animosity towards the GOP in its current form. Bartlett spoke out about what he saw as the previous administration&#8217;s flaws and was read out of the conservative movement as a result. That he continues to have ideological issues with the current GOP leadership does not diminish that history.</p>
<p>Further, what about Bartlett&#8217;s critique- <i>&#8220;All I see is pandering to the party’s crazies like the birthers . In the short run that may be enough to pick up a few congressional seats next year, but I see no way a Republican can retake the White House for the foreseeable future.&#8221;</i>- is substantively different from any other dissident&#8217;s view?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Thompson</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/#comment-27095</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10057#comment-27095</guid>
		<description>This is kind of the point.  Party of No may be just fine for being a minority opposition party.  It is not, however, fine for actually governing and if the GOP still has no agenda if and when it returns to some semblance of national power, it will simply repeat the errors of the last 8 years.  Meanwhile, there are actual problems begging for actual solutions - and not just fiscal problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is kind of the point.  Party of No may be just fine for being a minority opposition party.  It is not, however, fine for actually governing and if the GOP still has no agenda if and when it returns to some semblance of national power, it will simply repeat the errors of the last 8 years.  Meanwhile, there are actual problems begging for actual solutions &#8211; and not just fiscal problems.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Koz</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/#comment-27093</link>
		<dc:creator>Koz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 05:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10057#comment-27093</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Let me put it to you this way: what plan do Republicans have, right now, on which all or most all Republicans can agree, that will come anywhere close to balancing the budget or at least returning it to tolerable levels?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Frankly the Party of No is good enough for now.  If the GOP were in power now, chances are we&#039;d have no stimulus packages, no car company bailouts, no Kyoto, no cap-and-trade, and no universal government health care bill.  That already gives several trillion in the bank over the next decade or so.

Now in the bigger picture, you and I might agree that&#039;s still not enough to solve our fiscal problems but it&#039;s a decent first step.  Stop digging and all that.

And this is where the GOP is functioning only as an opposition party.  We should hope there will be a more proactive agenda as the Republicans attempt to contest for majority status.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Let me put it to you this way: what plan do Republicans have, right now, on which all or most all Republicans can agree, that will come anywhere close to balancing the budget or at least returning it to tolerable levels?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Frankly the Party of No is good enough for now.  If the GOP were in power now, chances are we&#8217;d have no stimulus packages, no car company bailouts, no Kyoto, no cap-and-trade, and no universal government health care bill.  That already gives several trillion in the bank over the next decade or so.</p>
<p>Now in the bigger picture, you and I might agree that&#8217;s still not enough to solve our fiscal problems but it&#8217;s a decent first step.  Stop digging and all that.</p>
<p>And this is where the GOP is functioning only as an opposition party.  We should hope there will be a more proactive agenda as the Republicans attempt to contest for majority status.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Koz</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/audience-voice-and-direction/#comment-27090</link>
		<dc:creator>Koz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 05:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10057#comment-27090</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I’ve never heard him claim that entitlements are, or ought to be, sacrosanct.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Sure he does.  More precisely, he claims that the current spending trajectory is irreformable therefore we as a party should acquiesce to whatever taxation level is required to fund it.  In return we should get some influence over how the money is raised, so we can implement a VAT instead of some other form which is more destructive of the economy.

http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/10/08/vat-attack-the-value-added-tax-bruce-bartlett-and-deficits/

As far as resentment goes, I think that&#039;s pretty clear too.

http://www.newmajority.com/why-i-am-anti-republican

Bruce Bartlett is not particularly important to anybody I know, except to the extent that he can argue his case like anybody else.  The idea that we ought to repudiate the GOP because they done Bruce Bartlett wrong isn&#039;t anything I take seriously, and in his heart of hearts I don&#039;t think he does either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I’ve never heard him claim that entitlements are, or ought to be, sacrosanct.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Sure he does.  More precisely, he claims that the current spending trajectory is irreformable therefore we as a party should acquiesce to whatever taxation level is required to fund it.  In return we should get some influence over how the money is raised, so we can implement a VAT instead of some other form which is more destructive of the economy.</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/10/08/vat-attack-the-value-added-tax-bruce-bartlett-and-deficits/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/10/08/vat-attack-the-value-added-tax-bruce-bartlett-and-deficits/</a></p>
<p>As far as resentment goes, I think that&#8217;s pretty clear too.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newmajority.com/why-i-am-anti-republican" rel="nofollow">http://www.newmajority.com/why-i-am-anti-republican</a></p>
<p>Bruce Bartlett is not particularly important to anybody I know, except to the extent that he can argue his case like anybody else.  The idea that we ought to repudiate the GOP because they done Bruce Bartlett wrong isn&#8217;t anything I take seriously, and in his heart of hearts I don&#8217;t think he does either.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
