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	<title>Comments on: Connecting Dissidents and the Base</title>
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		<title>By: The Iron Binary and Reagan&#8217;s Succession Crisis &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/connecting-dissidents-and-the-base/#comment-28018</link>
		<dc:creator>The Iron Binary and Reagan&#8217;s Succession Crisis &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9902#comment-28018</guid>
		<description>[...] Conservatives are, and an accurate reading of where the competition is. Building off of Mark’s exploration of the relationship between the base and wonks and E.D. taking that ball and running with it, I hope to add another piece to the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Conservatives are, and an accurate reading of where the competition is. Building off of Mark’s exploration of the relationship between the base and wonks and E.D. taking that ball and running with it, I hope to add another piece to the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Conor Friedersdorf - Metablog &#8211; The Many Projects of American Conservatives - True/Slant</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/connecting-dissidents-and-the-base/#comment-27757</link>
		<dc:creator>Conor Friedersdorf - Metablog &#8211; The Many Projects of American Conservatives - True/Slant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9902#comment-27757</guid>
		<description>[...] who participate in public discourse. Note that when Mark Thompson says he agrees with Freddie that the dissident conservatives aren&#8217;t doing their jobs, he ignores these distinctions, and conflates two other groups that are distinguishable from one [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] who participate in public discourse. Note that when Mark Thompson says he agrees with Freddie that the dissident conservatives aren&#8217;t doing their jobs, he ignores these distinctions, and conflates two other groups that are distinguishable from one [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Marshall</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/connecting-dissidents-and-the-base/#comment-27422</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 03:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9902#comment-27422</guid>
		<description>If Nate Silver posted something about the GOP retaking the house in &#039;10 I missed it and I&#039;m a religious 538 consumer.  He&#039;s a gambling man and a stats god and no one sane and and as data soaked as him would touch a &#039;10 prediction like that with a cattleprod.  There haven&#039;t been primaries yet.  How would you even start to model that out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Nate Silver posted something about the GOP retaking the house in &#8216;10 I missed it and I&#8217;m a religious 538 consumer.  He&#8217;s a gambling man and a stats god and no one sane and and as data soaked as him would touch a &#8216;10 prediction like that with a cattleprod.  There haven&#8217;t been primaries yet.  How would you even start to model that out?</p>
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		<title>By: The Young And The Dissident: Meditations On The Reformers From Some Ordinary Gentlemen &#171; Around The Sphere</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/connecting-dissidents-and-the-base/#comment-27395</link>
		<dc:creator>The Young And The Dissident: Meditations On The Reformers From Some Ordinary Gentlemen &#171; Around The Sphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9902#comment-27395</guid>
		<description>[...] Thompson: One area where Freddie has taken a bit of heat is for going after so-called reform conservatives [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Thompson: One area where Freddie has taken a bit of heat is for going after so-called reform conservatives [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Koz</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/connecting-dissidents-and-the-base/#comment-26662</link>
		<dc:creator>Koz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9902#comment-26662</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Man that’s some pretty dumb “Smart” money if it thinks the Republicans are going to get a majority in the house despite the number of seats they’re defending vs attacking.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Look it up.  Nate Silver, Charlie Cook, Michael Barone, that crowd is saying it&#039;s about even money for the GOP to retake the House.  For me, that&#039;s less important than the lead pipe certainty that the GOP is going to gain 20+ seats for sure.  And given where we are that puts the GOP in the driver&#039;s seat in terms of driving the debate.

One thing that surprises me is that the GOP is winning the debate right now &lt;i&gt;by default&lt;/i&gt;.  Whoever said you can&#039;t beat something with nothing hadn&#039;t seen this.  When the GOP gets their message back and I think they&#039;ll eventually figure it out, we&#039;ll be looking at 1994 again.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;I’d be fascinated to hear your view on the 8 years of Bush and Republican rule. I don’t think you’ve shared it yet. &quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Ok, what in particular do you want to know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Man that’s some pretty dumb “Smart” money if it thinks the Republicans are going to get a majority in the house despite the number of seats they’re defending vs attacking.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Look it up.  Nate Silver, Charlie Cook, Michael Barone, that crowd is saying it&#8217;s about even money for the GOP to retake the House.  For me, that&#8217;s less important than the lead pipe certainty that the GOP is going to gain 20+ seats for sure.  And given where we are that puts the GOP in the driver&#8217;s seat in terms of driving the debate.</p>
<p>One thing that surprises me is that the GOP is winning the debate right now <i>by default</i>.  Whoever said you can&#8217;t beat something with nothing hadn&#8217;t seen this.  When the GOP gets their message back and I think they&#8217;ll eventually figure it out, we&#8217;ll be looking at 1994 again.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;I’d be fascinated to hear your view on the 8 years of Bush and Republican rule. I don’t think you’ve shared it yet. &#8220;</i></p>
<p>Ok, what in particular do you want to know?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon H</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/connecting-dissidents-and-the-base/#comment-26618</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9902#comment-26618</guid>
		<description>&quot;How is this more sustainable?&quot;

It&#039;s not, but then, neither is the current uncontrolled rate of increase for healthcare costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How is this more sustainable?&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not, but then, neither is the current uncontrolled rate of increase for healthcare costs.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon H</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/connecting-dissidents-and-the-base/#comment-26616</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9902#comment-26616</guid>
		<description>&quot;Remember 2001? In the immediate post 9-11 world, the “Left” organized a host of anti-war rallies that were pro… nothing.&quot;

There were very few anti-war rallies in 2001, and none were particularly large. The major rallies were in 2002 and 2003, and were mostly in opposition to invading Iraq, who had nothing to do with 9/11, and was a plainly unnecessary war. There were a lot more people in those protests because many people saw Afghanistan as a reasonable response, but knew Iraq was bloody stupid and nothing but a long-time fetish for Bill Kristol and his ilk, and 9/11 was just an excuse.

Some ideas are so plainly idiotic that &quot;don&#039;t do that&quot; is an entirely sufficient alternative. If someone wants to put their penis in a hot waffle iron, you aren&#039;t required to suggest putting it in a blender. 

The difference between healthcare and Iraq is that rising healthcare costs are more of a threat to the US than Iraq ever was, so unlike Iraq, doing nothing is not a viable option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Remember 2001? In the immediate post 9-11 world, the “Left” organized a host of anti-war rallies that were pro… nothing.&#8221;</p>
<p>There were very few anti-war rallies in 2001, and none were particularly large. The major rallies were in 2002 and 2003, and were mostly in opposition to invading Iraq, who had nothing to do with 9/11, and was a plainly unnecessary war. There were a lot more people in those protests because many people saw Afghanistan as a reasonable response, but knew Iraq was bloody stupid and nothing but a long-time fetish for Bill Kristol and his ilk, and 9/11 was just an excuse.</p>
<p>Some ideas are so plainly idiotic that &#8220;don&#8217;t do that&#8221; is an entirely sufficient alternative. If someone wants to put their penis in a hot waffle iron, you aren&#8217;t required to suggest putting it in a blender. </p>
<p>The difference between healthcare and Iraq is that rising healthcare costs are more of a threat to the US than Iraq ever was, so unlike Iraq, doing nothing is not a viable option.</p>
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		<title>By: North</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/connecting-dissidents-and-the-base/#comment-26607</link>
		<dc:creator>North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9902#comment-26607</guid>
		<description>Man that&#039;s some pretty dumb &quot;Smart&quot; money if it thinks the Republicans are going to get a majority in the house despite the number of seats they&#039;re defending vs attacking. But since we both hang out here I&#039;ll either gloat or congradulate you then. I love this though: 

&quot;Which actually is the main reason why I’m writing here. When the Demo base figures out that they controlled both houses of the Legislature plus the Presidency and didn’t get health care or cap-and-trade, they’re going to be pissed off and out for blood. And they are going work to roadblock whatever the GOP tries as a quid pro quo.&quot; 

This seems like classic projection to me. The GOP had complete control for the years right after that idiot Kerry imploded and what did their right wing get? So now how have they behaved? 

I&#039;d be fascinated to hear your view on the 8 years of Bush and Republican rule. I don&#039;t think you&#039;ve shared it yet. 

Ultimatly time will tell, but it&#039;s up to Obama and the Democratic Party how it&#039;s going to go. The Republicans have been relegated to the role of taking what&#039;s given to them. Whether that&#039;ll be for ill or well isn&#039;t in their hands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man that&#8217;s some pretty dumb &#8220;Smart&#8221; money if it thinks the Republicans are going to get a majority in the house despite the number of seats they&#8217;re defending vs attacking. But since we both hang out here I&#8217;ll either gloat or congradulate you then. I love this though: </p>
<p>&#8220;Which actually is the main reason why I’m writing here. When the Demo base figures out that they controlled both houses of the Legislature plus the Presidency and didn’t get health care or cap-and-trade, they’re going to be pissed off and out for blood. And they are going work to roadblock whatever the GOP tries as a quid pro quo.&#8221; </p>
<p>This seems like classic projection to me. The GOP had complete control for the years right after that idiot Kerry imploded and what did their right wing get? So now how have they behaved? </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be fascinated to hear your view on the 8 years of Bush and Republican rule. I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ve shared it yet. </p>
<p>Ultimatly time will tell, but it&#8217;s up to Obama and the Democratic Party how it&#8217;s going to go. The Republicans have been relegated to the role of taking what&#8217;s given to them. Whether that&#8217;ll be for ill or well isn&#8217;t in their hands.</p>
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		<title>By: Koz</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/connecting-dissidents-and-the-base/#comment-26602</link>
		<dc:creator>Koz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9902#comment-26602</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;You have your party’s narrative and you’re sticking to it come hell or high water.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Uhhh, no.  This &lt;i&gt;ought&lt;/i&gt; to be my party&#039;s narrative, sometimes they screw it up as I&#039;m sure you can appreciate.

But contrary to your thoughts, the last eight years are not excised from it, we just see them in a different context now that Obama has taken office.

&lt;i&gt;If Obama and his party actually get the fiscal situation under control Republicans will probably be a rump for a generation.&lt;/i&gt;

Well yes, but the ship has already sailed on that one.

&lt;i&gt;If he plays to far left form you could resurge in as little as 4-8 years. It must be frustrating to have so little control over your party’s future.&lt;/i&gt;

Uhhh, no.  The &quot;smart&quot; money says we&#039;re taking back the House in the next election.  I think that&#039;s underestimating the GOP&#039;s prospects because no matter who ends up w/ nominal control there&#039;s 90%+ chance that the GOP will gain at least 20 seats or so, ie most of the D&#039;s majority.  That, combined with the reality that the D&#039;s message has fallen completely flat means that the GOP will be driving the debate pretty quick actually.

Which actually is the main reason why I&#039;m writing here.  When the Demo base figures out that they controlled both houses of the Legislature plus the Presidency and didn&#039;t get health care or cap-and-trade, they&#039;re going to be pissed off and out for blood.  And they are going work to roadblock whatever the GOP tries as a quid pro quo.

For that reason we need to build the bridges of cooperation now while the D&#039;s are in the majority.  We oppose the Obama Administration agenda because we are acting in the best interest of the country.  That&#039;s a big big difference that needs to be highlighted.  If the D&#039;s do what I think, they&#039;ll oppose the GOP agenda because they&#039;re a bunch of angry ignorami.

Don&#039;t be a jerk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;You have your party’s narrative and you’re sticking to it come hell or high water.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Uhhh, no.  This <i>ought</i> to be my party&#8217;s narrative, sometimes they screw it up as I&#8217;m sure you can appreciate.</p>
<p>But contrary to your thoughts, the last eight years are not excised from it, we just see them in a different context now that Obama has taken office.</p>
<p><i>If Obama and his party actually get the fiscal situation under control Republicans will probably be a rump for a generation.</i></p>
<p>Well yes, but the ship has already sailed on that one.</p>
<p><i>If he plays to far left form you could resurge in as little as 4-8 years. It must be frustrating to have so little control over your party’s future.</i></p>
<p>Uhhh, no.  The &#8220;smart&#8221; money says we&#8217;re taking back the House in the next election.  I think that&#8217;s underestimating the GOP&#8217;s prospects because no matter who ends up w/ nominal control there&#8217;s 90%+ chance that the GOP will gain at least 20 seats or so, ie most of the D&#8217;s majority.  That, combined with the reality that the D&#8217;s message has fallen completely flat means that the GOP will be driving the debate pretty quick actually.</p>
<p>Which actually is the main reason why I&#8217;m writing here.  When the Demo base figures out that they controlled both houses of the Legislature plus the Presidency and didn&#8217;t get health care or cap-and-trade, they&#8217;re going to be pissed off and out for blood.  And they are going work to roadblock whatever the GOP tries as a quid pro quo.</p>
<p>For that reason we need to build the bridges of cooperation now while the D&#8217;s are in the majority.  We oppose the Obama Administration agenda because we are acting in the best interest of the country.  That&#8217;s a big big difference that needs to be highlighted.  If the D&#8217;s do what I think, they&#8217;ll oppose the GOP agenda because they&#8217;re a bunch of angry ignorami.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be a jerk.</p>
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		<title>By: Bo</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/connecting-dissidents-and-the-base/#comment-26598</link>
		<dc:creator>Bo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9902#comment-26598</guid>
		<description>Why exactly does California &lt;i&gt;ought&lt;/i&gt; to be so much richer than Texas?  We agree it is, but I&#039;m not quite sure why you think it ought to be, if not for its better governance.

&lt;i&gt;Issuing IOUs lieu of money to pay state debts.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s weird how unacquainted you seem to be with the facts surrounding that: California&#039;s (Republican) governor issued IOUs because they need a 2/3 majority to pass a state budget that includes a tax increase, and the Republican Legislators decided to pull a Gingrich and hold the government hostage instead.  And they can&#039;t borrow money because CA state law states that they have to balance the budget, not because banks are refusing to loan to them.  This makes for a nice bit of drama but doesn&#039;t change the underlying fact that California, even in the middle of a serious recession and budget crisis, was still a much richer state than Texas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why exactly does California <i>ought</i> to be so much richer than Texas?  We agree it is, but I&#8217;m not quite sure why you think it ought to be, if not for its better governance.</p>
<p><i>Issuing IOUs lieu of money to pay state debts.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s weird how unacquainted you seem to be with the facts surrounding that: California&#8217;s (Republican) governor issued IOUs because they need a 2/3 majority to pass a state budget that includes a tax increase, and the Republican Legislators decided to pull a Gingrich and hold the government hostage instead.  And they can&#8217;t borrow money because CA state law states that they have to balance the budget, not because banks are refusing to loan to them.  This makes for a nice bit of drama but doesn&#8217;t change the underlying fact that California, even in the middle of a serious recession and budget crisis, was still a much richer state than Texas.</p>
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