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	<title>Comments on: Libertoryanism</title>
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		<title>By: Free Twink Pics &#187; Libertoryanism &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/libertoryanism/#comment-25239</link>
		<dc:creator>Free Twink Pics &#187; Libertoryanism &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9450#comment-25239</guid>
		<description>[...] post is from here. Visit the link to read more.(The Black/Af-Am choice is rather more supple, though mainstream seems [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post is from here. Visit the link to read more.(The Black/Af-Am choice is rather more supple, though mainstream seems [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gay Hunks Wanking &#187; Libertoryanism &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/libertoryanism/#comment-25238</link>
		<dc:creator>Gay Hunks Wanking &#187; Libertoryanism &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9450#comment-25238</guid>
		<description>[...] post is from here. Visit the link to read more.(The Black/Af-Am choice is rather more supple, though mainstream seems [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post is from here. Visit the link to read more.(The Black/Af-Am choice is rather more supple, though mainstream seems [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/libertoryanism/#comment-24898</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9450#comment-24898</guid>
		<description>Ah, well. It looks like tone--the key ingredient--got lost, and we  ended up talking past each other. I can understand the annoyance at language policing--but I think that there&#039;s another angle I got at, but failed to state clearly. Like saying: Democrat Party, instead of using proper English, it&#039;s a bratty way for the GOP to play schoolyard shove in the ribs, I don&#039;t respect you, that the word you&#039;ve chosen for yourself doesn&#039;t matter.

To be fair, I can&#039;t be bothered debate a party of St. Grottlesex trust-funders who decry the imagined &#039;fascism&#039; of college campuses (because of all the things one might do on a college campus, identity politics is neither sin nor crime, just a step above gauche ponchos, Che Guevera T-Shirts, or considering the works of Ayn Rand &#039;literature;&#039; the opportunity for alcohol poisoning and date rape are more problematic than a drum circle) or how political correctness (respecting groups who&#039;d never vote for you) while riding herd on a herrenvolken here to defeat the effete academics and swarthy foreigners to take back &#039;real America&#039; while buttressing domestic terrorism and pretending it&#039;s nothing. 

That&#039;s shrill, I&#039;d suppose, but, as (Will&#039;s post, I think) indicated, they&#039;re on their way out, without some serious reorientation (perhaps spreading the wide stance)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, well. It looks like tone&#8211;the key ingredient&#8211;got lost, and we  ended up talking past each other. I can understand the annoyance at language policing&#8211;but I think that there&#8217;s another angle I got at, but failed to state clearly. Like saying: Democrat Party, instead of using proper English, it&#8217;s a bratty way for the GOP to play schoolyard shove in the ribs, I don&#8217;t respect you, that the word you&#8217;ve chosen for yourself doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>To be fair, I can&#8217;t be bothered debate a party of St. Grottlesex trust-funders who decry the imagined &#8216;fascism&#8217; of college campuses (because of all the things one might do on a college campus, identity politics is neither sin nor crime, just a step above gauche ponchos, Che Guevera T-Shirts, or considering the works of Ayn Rand &#8216;literature;&#8217; the opportunity for alcohol poisoning and date rape are more problematic than a drum circle) or how political correctness (respecting groups who&#8217;d never vote for you) while riding herd on a herrenvolken here to defeat the effete academics and swarthy foreigners to take back &#8216;real America&#8217; while buttressing domestic terrorism and pretending it&#8217;s nothing. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s shrill, I&#8217;d suppose, but, as (Will&#8217;s post, I think) indicated, they&#8217;re on their way out, without some serious reorientation (perhaps spreading the wide stance)</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/libertoryanism/#comment-24877</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9450#comment-24877</guid>
		<description>Dude. This is, like, my *FAVORITE* topic that doesn&#039;t involve Batman. I can no more think &quot;whatever&quot; on this topic than I could think that Iron Man is better.

I&#039;m cool with the whole &quot;right/wrong&quot; thing (I wrote an essay for the site about a ethic that didn&#039;t have a theos!) but, at the end of the day, the &quot;act&quot; that is &quot;abnormal&quot; is the whole &quot;treating sex as less than Divine&quot; thing (and I deliberately capitalized that and I&#039;m not making that dumb &quot;I forget your name but you were Divine&quot; joke). If it is treated as something other than two, for lack of a better word, souls uniting then *THAT* is abnormal.

So the Larry Craig thing? That Ted Haggard thing? Yes. That is, indeed, an abomination and he strikes me as deeply insane and someone to be deeply, deeply pitied.

But two dudes who have, despite all forces working against them, found each other in this vale of tears?

Eh. If I don&#039;t have to do anything, they can knock themselves out. None of my beeswax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude. This is, like, my *FAVORITE* topic that doesn&#8217;t involve Batman. I can no more think &#8220;whatever&#8221; on this topic than I could think that Iron Man is better.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m cool with the whole &#8220;right/wrong&#8221; thing (I wrote an essay for the site about a ethic that didn&#8217;t have a theos!) but, at the end of the day, the &#8220;act&#8221; that is &#8220;abnormal&#8221; is the whole &#8220;treating sex as less than Divine&#8221; thing (and I deliberately capitalized that and I&#8217;m not making that dumb &#8220;I forget your name but you were Divine&#8221; joke). If it is treated as something other than two, for lack of a better word, souls uniting then *THAT* is abnormal.</p>
<p>So the Larry Craig thing? That Ted Haggard thing? Yes. That is, indeed, an abomination and he strikes me as deeply insane and someone to be deeply, deeply pitied.</p>
<p>But two dudes who have, despite all forces working against them, found each other in this vale of tears?</p>
<p>Eh. If I don&#8217;t have to do anything, they can knock themselves out. None of my beeswax.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/libertoryanism/#comment-24863</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9450#comment-24863</guid>
		<description>Are we at the &#039;whatever&#039; thing yet?
BTW, I met Browne once, twenty years ago, during a demonstration...&quot;One, two, three four, we don&#039;t want&quot;...well this time it was a hazardous waste incinerator!
&quot;Your vote....&quot; I was referring to propositions, taxes, etc.
Insights and illuminations are good, but there is right/wrong, there is the revelation of the in-between of existence, where the reality of existence, as experienced in the movement, is &quot;a mutual participation of human and divine.&quot; 
I think &quot;cruelty&quot; is abnormal. It&#039;s not the person I&#039;m critiquing, it&#039;s the &quot;act.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we at the &#8216;whatever&#8217; thing yet?<br />
BTW, I met Browne once, twenty years ago, during a demonstration&#8230;&#8221;One, two, three four, we don&#8217;t want&#8221;&#8230;well this time it was a hazardous waste incinerator!<br />
&#8220;Your vote&#8230;.&#8221; I was referring to propositions, taxes, etc.<br />
Insights and illuminations are good, but there is right/wrong, there is the revelation of the in-between of existence, where the reality of existence, as experienced in the movement, is &#8220;a mutual participation of human and divine.&#8221;<br />
I think &#8220;cruelty&#8221; is abnormal. It&#8217;s not the person I&#8217;m critiquing, it&#8217;s the &#8220;act.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/libertoryanism/#comment-24840</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9450#comment-24840</guid>
		<description>&quot;your vote has had some effect on my life.&quot;

Woo! Browne, Nader, Badnarik, and Jay!!!

Anyway, I&#039;m from the internet. I don&#039;t really have a decent gauge when it comes to &quot;abnormal&quot;. I mean, it seems to me that &quot;cruelty&quot; is pretty normal and people treating other people as they would like to be treated is fairly rare. If I went by &quot;normal&quot;, which of those ought I pick?

Screw normal. Follow the insights about how to treat people that you have gleaned from your studies.

That&#039;s the seed that I am hoping to plant today.

But, hey. If that ain&#039;t your bag, ain&#039;t no drag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;your vote has had some effect on my life.&#8221;</p>
<p>Woo! Browne, Nader, Badnarik, and Jay!!!</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m from the internet. I don&#8217;t really have a decent gauge when it comes to &#8220;abnormal&#8221;. I mean, it seems to me that &#8220;cruelty&#8221; is pretty normal and people treating other people as they would like to be treated is fairly rare. If I went by &#8220;normal&#8221;, which of those ought I pick?</p>
<p>Screw normal. Follow the insights about how to treat people that you have gleaned from your studies.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the seed that I am hoping to plant today.</p>
<p>But, hey. If that ain&#8217;t your bag, ain&#8217;t no drag.</p>
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		<title>By: North</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/libertoryanism/#comment-24838</link>
		<dc:creator>North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9450#comment-24838</guid>
		<description>Well I meant to be sarcastic and cutting when I denounced political correctness the way I did so I&#039;ll offer an apology of my own. Language is a pet peeve of mine but we are on the same side ultimatly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I meant to be sarcastic and cutting when I denounced political correctness the way I did so I&#8217;ll offer an apology of my own. Language is a pet peeve of mine but we are on the same side ultimatly.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/libertoryanism/#comment-24813</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9450#comment-24813</guid>
		<description>JB,
Dude, I have no desire to &#039;police&#039; homosexuals anymore than heteros, never said I did...consenting adults and all.
My argument was about the normal/abnormal status of homosexuality. I am arguing that homosexual acts are &#039;abnormal.&#039; That&#039;s it!
No, I don&#039;t &#039;believe&#039; in homosexual marriage, or adoption!
&quot;I ain’t gonna tell you how you ought to live.&quot; Well, ...er, YOU may not be telling me how to live, but your vote has had some effect on my life.
JB, dude, your a smart fellow, but you&#039;ve contracted your existence into a world-immanent self, and I think you&#039;re better than that. But, hey, &quot;if what your doin&#039; makes you feel good, go nuts.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JB,<br />
Dude, I have no desire to &#8216;police&#8217; homosexuals anymore than heteros, never said I did&#8230;consenting adults and all.<br />
My argument was about the normal/abnormal status of homosexuality. I am arguing that homosexual acts are &#8216;abnormal.&#8217; That&#8217;s it!<br />
No, I don&#8217;t &#8216;believe&#8217; in homosexual marriage, or adoption!<br />
&#8220;I ain’t gonna tell you how you ought to live.&#8221; Well, &#8230;er, YOU may not be telling me how to live, but your vote has had some effect on my life.<br />
JB, dude, your a smart fellow, but you&#8217;ve contracted your existence into a world-immanent self, and I think you&#8217;re better than that. But, hey, &#8220;if what your doin&#8217; makes you feel good, go nuts.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: E.D. Kain</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/libertoryanism/#comment-24808</link>
		<dc:creator>E.D. Kain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9450#comment-24808</guid>
		<description>Well put, Jaybird.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well put, Jaybird.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/libertoryanism/#comment-24806</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=9450#comment-24806</guid>
		<description>Hmm, I hadn&#039;t meant to be shrill, and if I was, I apologize. 

It was a nit pick or a quibble, to clarify the statement--I could tell from context what was meant, rather than what it sounded like, which is why I harked to the woman v. lady argument (though I suppose the proper construction would be woman v. female for precision or identical match in meaning--or girl (a man talking about, say, a 35 year old lawyer) v. female). I wasn&#039;t demanding herstory or womynism or rewriting history books to explain how Jesus delivered the reified Constitution to George Washington.

Besides, sometimes you have to shout at some well meaning clod to be heard, cause they&#039;ve yet to meet a gay person; as I&#039;ve learned from the GOP, a sufficient demostrati0n of zeal and emotion will win concessions and allow your terminology hegemony, especially if you dress it up in moral language. Which means everyone shouts instead of talking, but the point was to help Mr. Kain communicate his point more clearly, rather than a rhetorical drum-banging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, I hadn&#8217;t meant to be shrill, and if I was, I apologize. </p>
<p>It was a nit pick or a quibble, to clarify the statement&#8211;I could tell from context what was meant, rather than what it sounded like, which is why I harked to the woman v. lady argument (though I suppose the proper construction would be woman v. female for precision or identical match in meaning&#8211;or girl (a man talking about, say, a 35 year old lawyer) v. female). I wasn&#8217;t demanding herstory or womynism or rewriting history books to explain how Jesus delivered the reified Constitution to George Washington.</p>
<p>Besides, sometimes you have to shout at some well meaning clod to be heard, cause they&#8217;ve yet to meet a gay person; as I&#8217;ve learned from the GOP, a sufficient demostrati0n of zeal and emotion will win concessions and allow your terminology hegemony, especially if you dress it up in moral language. Which means everyone shouts instead of talking, but the point was to help Mr. Kain communicate his point more clearly, rather than a rhetorical drum-banging.</p>
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