Comments on: The Good, The True, and The Beautiful: An Interview with Conor Friedersdorf http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/ Mon, 15 Mar 2010 05:35:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Civilized People Can Be Rude | ThePolitic.com http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/#comment-27274 Civilized People Can Be Rude | ThePolitic.com Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:37:08 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10032#comment-27274 [...] back to the interview with Conor Friedersdorf from the other thread, the following is an excerpt that raises significant questions. [...] [...] back to the interview with Conor Friedersdorf from the other thread, the following is an excerpt that raises significant questions. [...]

]]> By: Stuart Buck http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/#comment-26920 Stuart Buck Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:05:47 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10032#comment-26920 <i>Write a forceful critique of Mickey Kaus, or Ezra Klein, or Freddie, or Matt Yglesias, or James Taranto, or James Joyner, and they’ll defend themselves as forcefully, or concede the point.</i> Not sure of that . . . having written forceful critiques of more than one person on that list, the more common response to criticism is to completely ignore it and continue making a given untrue claim in the future. Write a forceful critique of Mickey Kaus, or Ezra Klein, or Freddie, or Matt Yglesias, or James Taranto, or James Joyner, and they’ll defend themselves as forcefully, or concede the point.

Not sure of that . . . having written forceful critiques of more than one person on that list, the more common response to criticism is to completely ignore it and continue making a given untrue claim in the future.

]]> By: Electric Kool Aid Conservatism | ThePolitic.com http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/#comment-26882 Electric Kool Aid Conservatism | ThePolitic.com Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:00:10 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10032#comment-26882 [...] The league of Ordinary Gentlemen, Scott H. Payne has a great interview with Mr. Friedersdorf (Scott also has some good interviews with other prominent bloggers).  [...] [...] The league of Ordinary Gentlemen, Scott H. Payne has a great interview with Mr. Friedersdorf (Scott also has some good interviews with other prominent bloggers).  [...]

]]> By: Cascadian http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/#comment-26816 Cascadian Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:26:38 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10032#comment-26816 Bringing different perspectives to the table in honest debate brings out the a more robust narrative. It's not that each participant needs to start there. When looking at the use of natural resources, it is often better to include business and sport users instead of just earth firsters. You often end up with a better solution than any single perspective produces. Bringing different perspectives to the table in honest debate brings out the a more robust narrative. It’s not that each participant needs to start there. When looking at the use of natural resources, it is often better to include business and sport users instead of just earth firsters. You often end up with a better solution than any single perspective produces.

]]> By: Scott H. Payne http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/#comment-26815 Scott H. Payne Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:18:06 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10032#comment-26815 Zic, I think that this excerpt (emphasis Conor's), <em>You’ve somehow gotten the idea that I advised young people on the right to produce “palatable narratives.” That isn’t the case. The Electric Kool Aid Conservatism project is aimed at a general audience — and it calls for narrative non-fiction that is exhaustively reported, enjoyably told, and <strong>uncompromisingly true</strong>. Were I interviewing an applicant for a job at a magazine, and he told me that his aspiration was to write “palatable narratives,” I’d politely request that he find another profession. Perhaps we’re getting at what puzzles and galls me so much about recent posts at The League of Ordinary Gentlemen about how dissident conservative writers ought to conduct themselves. The notion is that these writers should assess an ideological subset of the American public, discern their sensibilities, and craft all subsequent writing so as not to offend them. What a fool’s errand. There are times when people react badly to hearing the truth plainly stated. It is a journalist’s job to tell them that truth anyway, as forthrightly and accurately as one can put it.</em> Demonstrates pretty well that that is precisely what Conor is proposing that conservative journalists do. Zic,

I think that this excerpt (emphasis Conor’s),

You’ve somehow gotten the idea that I advised young people on the right to produce “palatable narratives.” That isn’t the case. The Electric Kool Aid Conservatism project is aimed at a general audience — and it calls for narrative non-fiction that is exhaustively reported, enjoyably told, and uncompromisingly true. Were I interviewing an applicant for a job at a magazine, and he told me that his aspiration was to write “palatable narratives,” I’d politely request that he find another profession.

Perhaps we’re getting at what puzzles and galls me so much about recent posts at The League of Ordinary Gentlemen about how dissident conservative writers ought to conduct themselves. The notion is that these writers should assess an ideological subset of the American public, discern their sensibilities, and craft all subsequent writing so as not to offend them. What a fool’s errand. There are times when people react badly to hearing the truth plainly stated. It is a journalist’s job to tell them that truth anyway, as forthrightly and accurately as one can put it.

Demonstrates pretty well that that is precisely what Conor is proposing that conservative journalists do.

]]> By: zic http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/#comment-26814 zic Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:12:59 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10032#comment-26814 Then you would not be focused on constructing a 'conservative' narrative, but simply on a truthful narrative. Otherwise, you've already fallen in the ideology trap. Then you would not be focused on constructing a ‘conservative’ narrative, but simply on a truthful narrative. Otherwise, you’ve already fallen in the ideology trap.

]]> By: Conor Friedersdorf http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/#comment-26813 Conor Friedersdorf Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:04:32 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10032#comment-26813 Zic, I agree, and I don't think that is inconsistent with what I am advocating. Zic,

I agree, and I don’t think that is inconsistent with what I am advocating.

]]> By: Reason60 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/#comment-26803 Reason60 Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:36:42 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10032#comment-26803 Very good point- when I came of age politically in the 1970's, I would read both Mother Jones and National Review avidly; Each would have a horror story to illustrate their narrative-in one issue, a non-union worker would be injured, then thrown out of work without disability pay, for example, or in the other a small business would be targeted and crushed by union thuggery. Both stories we true; both had equal amounts horror and injustice. Yet the conclusions drawn were diametrically opposed. My political convictions arose when I mentally worked out the reconciliation, namely that both stories were about the powerless being run roughshod by the powerful, and that justice consists of equalizing power throughout society, letting interactions between parties become a balanced meeting of peers. Very good point- when I came of age politically in the 1970’s, I would read both Mother Jones and National Review avidly; Each would have a horror story to illustrate their narrative-in one issue, a non-union worker would be injured, then thrown out of work without disability pay, for example, or in the other a small business would be targeted and crushed by union thuggery.
Both stories we true; both had equal amounts horror and injustice. Yet the conclusions drawn were diametrically opposed.
My political convictions arose when I mentally worked out the reconciliation, namely that both stories were about the powerless being run roughshod by the powerful, and that justice consists of equalizing power throughout society, letting interactions between parties become a balanced meeting of peers.

]]> By: Bruce Smith http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/#comment-26798 Bruce Smith Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:24:46 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10032#comment-26798 Well said zic! Well said zic!

]]> By: zic http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/10/the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful-an-interview-with-conor-friedersdorf/#comment-26796 zic Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:20:46 +0000 http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10032#comment-26796 The meat of the interview is in this answer: <blockquote>Given funding, I have further ideas about every aspect of the national debate!</blockquote> I enjoy Friedersdorf's writing. But with 30+ years of conservative think tanks putting paid experts in the media's hands, I think he's missed the boat. The problem isn't that conservatism doesn't fit narrative journalism; the problem is the stories don't ring true because they're usually half truths. They're stories shaped by that "funding" mechanism, unfortunately. Stories that are like a person illuminated from one side, the other in shadow. You've got to study the shadow to understand anything close to the whole. Illuminating conservative thought -- illuminating any thought -- requires stretching your view around the face we put on our thinking. Conservatives don't need more paid thinkers to figure out how to illuminate their side of the American face; they need to spend some time understanding the other side of the face, and putting it into a harmonious perspective; a little less left/right, and a little more US. Writing with the ring of truth means thinking through your bias until you understand opposing thought. It's not crafting a better, one-sided narrative. The meat of the interview is in this answer:

Given funding, I have further ideas about every aspect of the national debate!

I enjoy Friedersdorf’s writing.

But with 30+ years of conservative think tanks putting paid experts in the media’s hands, I think he’s missed the boat. The problem isn’t that conservatism doesn’t fit narrative journalism; the problem is the stories don’t ring true because they’re usually half truths. They’re stories shaped by that “funding” mechanism, unfortunately. Stories that are like a person illuminated from one side, the other in shadow. You’ve got to study the shadow to understand anything close to the whole.

Illuminating conservative thought — illuminating any thought — requires stretching your view around the face we put on our thinking. Conservatives don’t need more paid thinkers to figure out how to illuminate their side of the American face; they need to spend some time understanding the other side of the face, and putting it into a harmonious perspective; a little less left/right, and a little more US.

Writing with the ring of truth means thinking through your bias until you understand opposing thought. It’s not crafting a better, one-sided narrative.

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