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	<title>Comments on: Double standards</title>
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		<title>By: Neil the Ethical Werewolf</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/double-standards/#comment-30947</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil the Ethical Werewolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10963#comment-30947</guid>
		<description>Ugh, E.D., I&#039;m sorry for being so angry.  Let me just try to explain what&#039;s setting me off.

Lots of liberals endured the indignity of voting for a bill containing a provision they consider deeply odious, because passing health care reform meant so much to them.  It just annoys me to see liberals in general get criticized as if they&#039;d done the wrong thing, when they actually came through and did the right one.  

I see that now that a fraction of them are playing ultimatum games.  (Which doesn&#039;t bother me much, as centrists in the House and Senate have been playing these games to great effect for months now, and there&#039;s little to be said for unilateral ultimatum disarmament.)  But really, give them credit for what they did, because when the major decision point came, they did the right thing, and it was what you wanted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh, E.D., I&#8217;m sorry for being so angry.  Let me just try to explain what&#8217;s setting me off.</p>
<p>Lots of liberals endured the indignity of voting for a bill containing a provision they consider deeply odious, because passing health care reform meant so much to them.  It just annoys me to see liberals in general get criticized as if they&#8217;d done the wrong thing, when they actually came through and did the right one.  </p>
<p>I see that now that a fraction of them are playing ultimatum games.  (Which doesn&#8217;t bother me much, as centrists in the House and Senate have been playing these games to great effect for months now, and there&#8217;s little to be said for unilateral ultimatum disarmament.)  But really, give them credit for what they did, because when the major decision point came, they did the right thing, and it was what you wanted.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil the Ethical Werewolf</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/double-standards/#comment-30946</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil the Ethical Werewolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10963#comment-30946</guid>
		<description>And don&#039;t forget that vast majority of them did their part to give people health care coverage, in voting it through the House even with Stupak.  They helped to give everybody health care coverage.  You should be applauding their contribution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And don&#8217;t forget that vast majority of them did their part to give people health care coverage, in voting it through the House even with Stupak.  They helped to give everybody health care coverage.  You should be applauding their contribution.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil the Ethical Werewolf</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/double-standards/#comment-30945</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil the Ethical Werewolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10963#comment-30945</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a lot more than 41 &#039;liberals&#039; in the House.  If you&#039;re going to make a statement about liberals, try to make it true of more people than it&#039;s false.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a lot more than 41 &#8216;liberals&#8217; in the House.  If you&#8217;re going to make a statement about liberals, try to make it true of more people than it&#8217;s false.</p>
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		<title>By: Observer</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/double-standards/#comment-30836</link>
		<dc:creator>Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10963#comment-30836</guid>
		<description>Why exactly is anyone or any organization entitled to government subsidy?  Especially organizations that don&#039;t pay taxes, mobilize themselves in the political arena anyway, attack politicians based on purity checks to adhere to doctrine dictated from a handful of acres overseas, ad nauseum.

Mr. Kain your entire premise is tenditious, cynically conflating the obligation of a representative government to provide common services with religious organizations&#039; desire to separate &quot;us&quot; from &quot;them&quot;.

Private worship is separate from subsidized public services. Rome is entitled to be as doctrinally pure as it wants to be... on its own tithe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why exactly is anyone or any organization entitled to government subsidy?  Especially organizations that don&#8217;t pay taxes, mobilize themselves in the political arena anyway, attack politicians based on purity checks to adhere to doctrine dictated from a handful of acres overseas, ad nauseum.</p>
<p>Mr. Kain your entire premise is tenditious, cynically conflating the obligation of a representative government to provide common services with religious organizations&#8217; desire to separate &#8220;us&#8221; from &#8220;them&#8221;.</p>
<p>Private worship is separate from subsidized public services. Rome is entitled to be as doctrinally pure as it wants to be&#8230; on its own tithe.</p>
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		<title>By: E.D. Kain</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/double-standards/#comment-30829</link>
		<dc:creator>E.D. Kain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10963#comment-30829</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/obtained-in-letter-to-pelosi-41-house-dems-pledge-to-vote-against-bill-with-abortion-amendment/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here you go, Neil.&lt;/a&gt;  Straw man on that for a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/obtained-in-letter-to-pelosi-41-house-dems-pledge-to-vote-against-bill-with-abortion-amendment/" rel="nofollow">Here you go, Neil.</a>  Straw man on that for a while.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil the Ethical Werewolf</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/double-standards/#comment-30826</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil the Ethical Werewolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10963#comment-30826</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;When the House recently passed a healthcare bill which included restrictions on the use of federal money to subsidize abortion, liberals were up in arms.  ”It restricts choice!” they cried.  Let’s oppose it!  Let’s vote down the entire bill even if that means more people in the country will remain uninsured.&lt;/i&gt;

You don&#039;t link to anybody here, because this is a big straw man.  The 39 Democratic No votes are mostly conservative Democrats.  There are a couple liberals, like Kucinich and Baird, who voted no, but liberals overwhelmingly supported the legislation.  So nothing about this &quot;smacks of double standards.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>When the House recently passed a healthcare bill which included restrictions on the use of federal money to subsidize abortion, liberals were up in arms.  ”It restricts choice!” they cried.  Let’s oppose it!  Let’s vote down the entire bill even if that means more people in the country will remain uninsured.</i></p>
<p>You don&#8217;t link to anybody here, because this is a big straw man.  The 39 Democratic No votes are mostly conservative Democrats.  There are a couple liberals, like Kucinich and Baird, who voted no, but liberals overwhelmingly supported the legislation.  So nothing about this &#8220;smacks of double standards.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/double-standards/#comment-30652</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10963#comment-30652</guid>
		<description>Fair enough, though the Catholic Church is one of the foremost voices calling for an end to the death penalty in this country as well. 

I agree with their position and E.D.&#039;s the lesson here isn&#039;t I have to suck it up, so should they. It&#039;s hmmm...I better persuade some people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough, though the Catholic Church is one of the foremost voices calling for an end to the death penalty in this country as well. </p>
<p>I agree with their position and E.D.&#8217;s the lesson here isn&#8217;t I have to suck it up, so should they. It&#8217;s hmmm&#8230;I better persuade some people.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/double-standards/#comment-30612</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10963#comment-30612</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s not the way it works though. There is no law, to my knowledge, that says &quot;you must abide by this non-discrimination policy, or we will withhold funding.&quot; Rather, we have the blanket Human Rights Act, which is one of the most broadly constructed anti-discrimination laws in the country.  

If an individual feels that their rights were violated under the Human Rights Act, they can bring a suit before the Human Rights Commission.  Upon a finding of discrimination, the Commission may issue injunctive relief and award damages including front and back pay, compensatory damages, civil penalties, and attorney’s fees. 

That gives the Chruch a few options. They can continue to abide by the Human Rights Act, and not risk any suit, as they have been doing up to this point.  They could violate the law, which would open them up to the possibility of a lawsuit. Or they can stop providing services in the district altogether.  

It seems they have premtively decided to stop providing services rather than risking a lawsuit. No where does it say that the government must cancel all contracts.  Any legal damage done to Catholic Charities would be entirely the result of an individual citizen filing a non-discrimination claim.

Ultimately, this whole scuffle revolves not around the pending marriage bill, but the Church&#039;s new-found refusal to obey the District&#039;s longstanding non-discrimination law.  That&#039;s their perogative. But it&#039;s hard to see this as anything but the Church trying to gain leverage to undermine the upcoming marriage law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not the way it works though. There is no law, to my knowledge, that says &#8220;you must abide by this non-discrimination policy, or we will withhold funding.&#8221; Rather, we have the blanket Human Rights Act, which is one of the most broadly constructed anti-discrimination laws in the country.  </p>
<p>If an individual feels that their rights were violated under the Human Rights Act, they can bring a suit before the Human Rights Commission.  Upon a finding of discrimination, the Commission may issue injunctive relief and award damages including front and back pay, compensatory damages, civil penalties, and attorney’s fees. </p>
<p>That gives the Chruch a few options. They can continue to abide by the Human Rights Act, and not risk any suit, as they have been doing up to this point.  They could violate the law, which would open them up to the possibility of a lawsuit. Or they can stop providing services in the district altogether.  </p>
<p>It seems they have premtively decided to stop providing services rather than risking a lawsuit. No where does it say that the government must cancel all contracts.  Any legal damage done to Catholic Charities would be entirely the result of an individual citizen filing a non-discrimination claim.</p>
<p>Ultimately, this whole scuffle revolves not around the pending marriage bill, but the Church&#8217;s new-found refusal to obey the District&#8217;s longstanding non-discrimination law.  That&#8217;s their perogative. But it&#8217;s hard to see this as anything but the Church trying to gain leverage to undermine the upcoming marriage law.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian M.</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/double-standards/#comment-30610</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10963#comment-30610</guid>
		<description>(sigh) their</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(sigh) their</p>
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		<title>By: Ian M.</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/double-standards/#comment-30609</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=10963#comment-30609</guid>
		<description>Churches should not receive federal money in any case ever - they&#039;re humanitarian efforts should be completely self funded.  They already receive a huge benefit from government in the form of tax exemptions, there is certainly no need for any more funds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Churches should not receive federal money in any case ever &#8211; they&#8217;re humanitarian efforts should be completely self funded.  They already receive a huge benefit from government in the form of tax exemptions, there is certainly no need for any more funds.</p>
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