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	<title>Comments on: Jumping To Conclusions</title>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/jumping-to-conclusions/#comment-32194</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=11298#comment-32194</guid>
		<description>Well, let&#039;s go back to Tiller.

http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/not-nearly-enough/

Was this blog posting, or the one it referred to, unethical, immoral, or indecent?

For the record, I don&#039;t think it was. I think that it was, in fact, making a fair statement... even though I disagreed with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, let&#8217;s go back to Tiller.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/not-nearly-enough/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/06/not-nearly-enough/</a></p>
<p>Was this blog posting, or the one it referred to, unethical, immoral, or indecent?</p>
<p>For the record, I don&#8217;t think it was. I think that it was, in fact, making a fair statement&#8230; even though I disagreed with it.</p>
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		<title>By: historystudent</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/jumping-to-conclusions/#comment-32185</link>
		<dc:creator>historystudent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=11298#comment-32185</guid>
		<description>Not just manners. Ethics and morality and decency too....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not just manners. Ethics and morality and decency too&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/jumping-to-conclusions/#comment-32140</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=11298#comment-32140</guid>
		<description>Addendum:

If there is a culture where people jump to conclusions, outrageously fear monger, accuse others of treason, etc, then people should not be surprised when the reaction of those of whom to which wrong conclusions were jumped, fears mongered, and treason accused that those jumped upon, mongered against, and otherwise accused act the way that you would if the tables were turned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addendum:</p>
<p>If there is a culture where people jump to conclusions, outrageously fear monger, accuse others of treason, etc, then people should not be surprised when the reaction of those of whom to which wrong conclusions were jumped, fears mongered, and treason accused that those jumped upon, mongered against, and otherwise accused act the way that you would if the tables were turned.</p>
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		<title>By: greginak</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/jumping-to-conclusions/#comment-32137</link>
		<dc:creator>greginak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=11298#comment-32137</guid>
		<description>so to conclude, people should not jump to conclusions, outrageously fear monger, accuse others of treason, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so to conclude, people should not jump to conclusions, outrageously fear monger, accuse others of treason, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/jumping-to-conclusions/#comment-32136</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=11298#comment-32136</guid>
		<description>Now we&#039;re getting into manners.

Manners are good, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now we&#8217;re getting into manners.</p>
<p>Manners are good, I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/jumping-to-conclusions/#comment-32135</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=11298#comment-32135</guid>
		<description>Hey, it&#039;s fair to point out that these were just questions being asked.

Surely there is no harm in asking a question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, it&#8217;s fair to point out that these were just questions being asked.</p>
<p>Surely there is no harm in asking a question.</p>
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		<title>By: historystudent</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/jumping-to-conclusions/#comment-32134</link>
		<dc:creator>historystudent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=11298#comment-32134</guid>
		<description>Speculation is just that, however. While I would not try to limit it, it does not really add much to constructive attempts to find the truth, which I think should always be the goal. I want the facts about what happened in each case. I would rather not have people jumping the gun and hazarding all sorts of &quot;what-ifs.&quot; I don&#039;t want government control of Internet or other speech, but individual restraint and responsibility before the facts have been gathered is always appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speculation is just that, however. While I would not try to limit it, it does not really add much to constructive attempts to find the truth, which I think should always be the goal. I want the facts about what happened in each case. I would rather not have people jumping the gun and hazarding all sorts of &#8220;what-ifs.&#8221; I don&#8217;t want government control of Internet or other speech, but individual restraint and responsibility before the facts have been gathered is always appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/jumping-to-conclusions/#comment-32133</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=11298#comment-32133</guid>
		<description>You are absolutely, 100%, correct.

The problem, I find, is that, every now and again, the topic of whether this is *REALLY* an exception or *REALLY* an example of what these people are *REALLY* like deep down and the murderer was merely honest enough to act on his beliefs (which are representative of those people).

We saw that discussion pop up after Tiller.
We saw that discussion pop up after Ft. Hood.
We saw that discussion pop up after Kentucky.
We will see this discussion pop up again the next time a tragedy involving murder (apparent or otherwise) happens.

While hoping that people will keep their pants on until we find out what CSI says is probably too much to hope for, one can hope that situations like this one can provide us, at least, a moment&#039;s pause before we start explaining how this particular Amish person going postal is representative of all Amish everywhere the next time an Amish guy blows up a buggy in a crowded craft fair. Or whatever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are absolutely, 100%, correct.</p>
<p>The problem, I find, is that, every now and again, the topic of whether this is *REALLY* an exception or *REALLY* an example of what these people are *REALLY* like deep down and the murderer was merely honest enough to act on his beliefs (which are representative of those people).</p>
<p>We saw that discussion pop up after Tiller.<br />
We saw that discussion pop up after Ft. Hood.<br />
We saw that discussion pop up after Kentucky.<br />
We will see this discussion pop up again the next time a tragedy involving murder (apparent or otherwise) happens.</p>
<p>While hoping that people will keep their pants on until we find out what CSI says is probably too much to hope for, one can hope that situations like this one can provide us, at least, a moment&#8217;s pause before we start explaining how this particular Amish person going postal is representative of all Amish everywhere the next time an Amish guy blows up a buggy in a crowded craft fair. Or whatever.</p>
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		<title>By: historystudent</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/jumping-to-conclusions/#comment-32131</link>
		<dc:creator>historystudent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=11298#comment-32131</guid>
		<description>I responded below, Jaybird.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I responded below, Jaybird.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2009/11/jumping-to-conclusions/#comment-32130</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/?p=11298#comment-32130</guid>
		<description>Oh, indeed! I&#039;ve been arguing similar since Tiller&#039;s murder!

I *DO*, however, think that the dynamics of this particular case are *VERY* interesting. The speculation by some (including not just low-profile bloggers and not just high-profile bloggers but also Time magazine, of all places) was not (as I&#039;ve pointed out) off-limits.

A person is (apparently) murdered, it&#039;s *NORMAL* to speculate about motive. It was the case for Tiller, it was the case for Fort Hood, it was the case for this as well.

The problem comes when, just like with Fort Hood, there comes up a bubbling group of voices that screams &quot;this murder is representative of a dangerous and virulent ideology and we need to do more to protect ourselves from people who share this dangerous and virulent ideology!&quot; Or, like so many Andy McCarthies, just asks the important questions that the other side surely finds too difficult to answer honestly.

This is a very interesting case. An apparent murder turned out to be an actual suicide... that&#039;s interesting. The fact that the suicide was staged to shift suspicion onto people who hold anti-government sentiment is *ALSO* very interesting.

There are a lot of exceptionally interesting dynamics going on here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, indeed! I&#8217;ve been arguing similar since Tiller&#8217;s murder!</p>
<p>I *DO*, however, think that the dynamics of this particular case are *VERY* interesting. The speculation by some (including not just low-profile bloggers and not just high-profile bloggers but also Time magazine, of all places) was not (as I&#8217;ve pointed out) off-limits.</p>
<p>A person is (apparently) murdered, it&#8217;s *NORMAL* to speculate about motive. It was the case for Tiller, it was the case for Fort Hood, it was the case for this as well.</p>
<p>The problem comes when, just like with Fort Hood, there comes up a bubbling group of voices that screams &#8220;this murder is representative of a dangerous and virulent ideology and we need to do more to protect ourselves from people who share this dangerous and virulent ideology!&#8221; Or, like so many Andy McCarthies, just asks the important questions that the other side surely finds too difficult to answer honestly.</p>
<p>This is a very interesting case. An apparent murder turned out to be an actual suicide&#8230; that&#8217;s interesting. The fact that the suicide was staged to shift suspicion onto people who hold anti-government sentiment is *ALSO* very interesting.</p>
<p>There are a lot of exceptionally interesting dynamics going on here.</p>
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